That matches my ranking exactly.
Indiana Jones 5. It's official.
- Thread starter Kelthaz
- Start date
Well the last film was 1954 and that was 12 years ago. So late 60's. Considering that the first was 1939 and than 1938 for temple....
This is very similar to my ranking. I do not see Raiders as highly as I do Last Crusade, largely because I find Belloq to be an insufferable as a villain. Kingdom is a fun movie, with a lot of issues but fun enough.
Temple of Doom is just uncomfortable and not fun.
I keep coming back to the idea of Indy in some sort of 70s conspiracy/political thriller. A Capricorn One or Three Days of the Condor. I don't know how you fit Indy into a movie like that -- Clear and Present Danger, but in the 70s, and with a 70 year-old Indy, but that's the 70s genre.
TOD seems largely just about outdoing the original film, as if "more will make it better." It's another adventure, but now everything is amplified, including tastelessness. The fact that it's set a year before ROTLA precludes any possibility of growth of Ford's character.
LC trumpets its return to first principles by undertaking an adventure that is similar to the one in ROTLA. That makes it derivative which is a different kind of negative problem than outdo-osis. But where I think it edges out over the original film is in the interaction between father and son and in everything directly to do with the Grail. These factors resonate with me personally in my relationship with my father. That personal connection means a lot.
KOTCS is not completely awful.
It could have been better; they all could have. Even the original film has a pretty big plot hole IMO with the U-boat that doesn't bother submerging, allowing Indy to ride to the secret island base right on top of it: if they are going to run at top speed, don't tell me that no one's going topside. I'm not sure how any one instance of escaping certain death is hokier than any other. That there are angels looking after Indiana is as good an explanation as any for how he survives it all. I had a tougher time swallowing riding the inflatable raft out of the crashing plane than the nuke the fridge scene.
My favorite escape is when dad scares up the seabirds into the plane strafing him and Indy.
When it's all said and done, I'm really interested in only the first and third films. So, I'm hoping that the fifth film manages to be of their caliber.
LC trumpets its return to first principles by undertaking an adventure that is similar to the one in ROTLA. That makes it derivative which is a different kind of negative problem than outdo-osis. But where I think it edges out over the original film is in the interaction between father and son and in everything directly to do with the Grail. These factors resonate with me personally in my relationship with my father. That personal connection means a lot.
KOTCS is not completely awful.
It could have been better; they all could have. Even the original film has a pretty big plot hole IMO with the U-boat that doesn't bother submerging, allowing Indy to ride to the secret island base right on top of it: if they are going to run at top speed, don't tell me that no one's going topside. I'm not sure how any one instance of escaping certain death is hokier than any other. That there are angels looking after Indiana is as good an explanation as any for how he survives it all. I had a tougher time swallowing riding the inflatable raft out of the crashing plane than the nuke the fridge scene.
My favorite escape is when dad scares up the seabirds into the plane strafing him and Indy.
When it's all said and done, I'm really interested in only the first and third films. So, I'm hoping that the fifth film manages to be of their caliber.
I recognize Raiders as a superior film to Last Crusade, but I just like LC better. I like the locations, the characters, the levity...even the soundtrack is just awesome.
ToD is excactly as you described it....it's just uncomfortable. It gave me a headache just watching it. Sure there are some classic scenes. The opening is fantastic ("Nice try Lao Che!") and the climactic scene on the bridge is pretty cool. Everything else is almost physically painful.
I'm thinking a 'going out in a blaze of glory' story, like John Wayne's final film, 1976's The Shootist. In fact, it's an almost perfect setup to crib from:
It's 1981. Marion's long since dead and buried, Mutt's moved out west and settled down. Indy's retired. He's in surprisingly good shape for his age, but... he's all alone. He's outlived his time. Now he's learned he's terminally ill with cancer - two months, maybe six weeks left to live. In the meantime he can do what he wants. In a few more weeks, he won't feel like doing much. One thing Dr. Jones is certain of - however he goes out, he'll be damned if it's wasting away in a bed in agony.
As if on cue, he gets a call from those 'top men' (CIA agents this time) again. There's a three-way race going on. The Americans, Soviets and Chinese have gotten a lead on a mystical item: The ring of Genghis Khan, supposedly originally worn by King Solomon and given to that ruler by God Himself. With that ring, Genghis and his Mongols nearly overran the medieval world. And it's said whoever finds it will become the ruler of the world.
Of course, the top men don't believe in the story of its magic. But they don't want to find out what that ring on the finger of Xiaoping, Brezhnev, or even Reagan might lead those men to. Indy's asked to accompany/advise the American expedition (unaware of the CIA's actions), find the ring first, and - at all costs - destroy it.
Oh - did I mention this gold ring, in addition to a ruby, has a swastika on it? (A later addition by Genghis, not original.) Which brings Neo-Nazis in and makes it a four-way chase. And soon, the American expedition is all but wiped out and Indy's the only other one left...
As if on cue, he gets a call from those 'top men' (CIA agents this time) again. There's a three-way race going on. The Americans, Soviets and Chinese have gotten a lead on a mystical item: The ring of Genghis Khan, supposedly originally worn by King Solomon and given to that ruler by God Himself. With that ring, Genghis and his Mongols nearly overran the medieval world. And it's said whoever finds it will become the ruler of the world.
Of course, the top men don't believe in the story of its magic. But they don't want to find out what that ring on the finger of Xiaoping, Brezhnev, or even Reagan might lead those men to. Indy's asked to accompany/advise the American expedition (unaware of the CIA's actions), find the ring first, and - at all costs - destroy it.
Oh - did I mention this gold ring, in addition to a ruby, has a swastika on it? (A later addition by Genghis, not original.) Which brings Neo-Nazis in and makes it a four-way chase. And soon, the American expedition is all but wiped out and Indy's the only other one left...
"He's got to face a gunfight once more. To live up to his legend once more. TO WIN JUST ONE MORE TIME." - The Shootist poster tagline
To me, that movie actually feels less like they're trying to outdo, than to do something completely different to set it apart. The tone and gratuitousness is completely different, and while it may be the same character, the type of story it tells is far different. I thought I'd read the whole scenario had been written for a different movie before they decided to make it an Indy movie, which would atone for the differences. I have to wonder how audiences felt upon seeing TOD for the first time.
Well, I told you how I felt seeing it for the first time. I saw it in the theater, first run.
Pretty much, yes. I could watch those scenes and be happy, though even the opening has its rather strange moments with the poison.
Lawrence Kasdan's quote about why he turned penning the screenplay down sums up my feelings well
"I didn't want to be associated with Temple of Doom," he reflected. "I just thought it was horrible. It's so mean. There's nothing pleasant about it. I think Temple of Doom represents a chaotic period in both their [Lucas and Spielberg] lives, and the movie is very ugly and mean-spirited."
Sums it up for me as well. It is a very mean spirited, cruel, film. I mean, I know the Indy films have some rather nasty deaths, but this one has human sacrifice and the villain gets a relatively lower key death than the people he has killed.
Just, no thank you.
I recall hearing they wanted to do a Bond type film with TOD.
If Harrison Ford ever bows out, they could always have one of Indy's descendants take over (we know he has a son), so maybe they could just set it in the modern age with Indy III or IV.
I can’t agree, I think a massive part of the series’ charm is its retro setting. If you set it today, it just becomes like National Treasure or the like. I don’t really want to see Indy whipping out his smartphone to solve a problem.
Playing off both these ideas, Indy could find evidence of a lost civilization, and be part of an expedition to prevent its exploitation by greedy industrialists, and perhaps attempt to work a deal with either the local government, or perhaps the US (or both). The poster he walks by could be for Doc Savage. He sees it, and shakes his head, saying "That kind of story never works."
Maybe Indy's descendant(s) would choose to "go retro" and not depend on modern conveniences.
Sounds pretty good to me, the only addition I would make is a younger sidekick who can do the big action scenes that Harrison Ford wouldn't be able to handle, and could potentially carry the franchise forward from here on. I know that idea didn't work out with Shia Labouf as Mutt, but I still think it's the best way to go, just with a different actor and character this time.
Just stick him in the deepest jungles of Africa and no cell phone or tech works.
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