• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

I'm with Rich Evans. ST:TMP is the best Star Trek movie. Here's my brief review.

It goes a little bit too far in the cold to earn the warmth for me. And part of that is the random asshole nature of Kirk towards Deckard.
That’s certainly understandable. But we know why Kirk’s being unfair to Decker in the whole first third-to-half… and by the end of the film, I think it’s fair to say they’ve become friends, or at least mutually respectful.
 
That’s certainly understandable. But we know why Kirk’s being unfair to Decker in the whole first third-to-half… and by the end of the film, I think it’s fair to say they’ve become friends, or at least mutually respectful.
Kirk being a jerk is not something understandable not does it come across well nor do I feel any compassion towards Kirk just being so unreasonable.
 
Kirk being a jerk is not something understandable not does it come across well nor do I feel any compassion towards Kirk just being so unreasonable.
Sure it is. He’s been stifled in a position he shouldn’t have taken, and (as a consequence) obsessed with getting his ship back, self-conscious and defensive about realizing he’s not as ready and up-to-date as he’d thought, and angry about it. I didn’t say he’s right to be that way or to take it out on Decker — he’s not, McCoy specifically calls him out on it, and frankly this is probably the biggest reason he needs McCoy there… and he knows it. This is completely believable, given that Kirk’s basically been stewing in not being who/what he used to be and is desperately trying to get back to that.

Compassion has nothing to do with it. Kirk is being a jerk, and more than kinda realizes it. As he gradually starts actually using Decker properly, he starts increasingly coming back from that, till finally by the end he’s no longer nervous prickly potential-Badmiral Kirk, he’s Jim Kirk again.

That’s Kirk’s real story in this film, just as Spock’s realization bringing him back from coldly aloof definitely-not-bitter Kolinahr failure to our Spock again is Spock’s.

And I think without these, TMP really would be the Just Another Adventure/“Changeling” remake a lot of viewers see it as. With them, it’s — to me — a much stronger and more interesting film.
 
Sure it is. He’s been stifled in a position he shouldn’t have taken, and (as a consequence) obsessed with getting his ship back, self-conscious and defensive about realizing he’s not as ready and up-to-date as he’d thought, and angry about it. I didn’t say he’s right to be that way or to take it out on Decker — he’s not, McCoy specifically calls him out on it, and frankly this is probably the biggest reason he needs McCoy there… and he knows it. This is completely believable, given that Kirk’s basically been stewing in not being who/what he used to be and is desperately trying to get back to that.

Compassion has nothing to do with it. Kirk is being a jerk, and more than kinda realizes it. As he gradually starts actually using Decker properly, he starts increasingly coming back from that, till finally by the end he’s no longer nervous prickly potential-Badmiral Kirk, he’s Jim Kirk again.

That’s Kirk’s real story in this film, just as Spock’s realization bringing him back from coldly aloof definitely-not-bitter Kolinahr failure to our Spock again is Spock’s.

And I think without these, TMP really would be the Just Another Adventure/“Changeling” remake a lot of viewers see it as. With them, it’s — to me — a much stronger and more interesting film.
And it works for many

It's not a story I enjoy.
 
Sure it is. He’s been stifled in a position he shouldn’t have taken, and (as a consequence) obsessed with getting his ship back, self-conscious and defensive about realizing he’s not as ready and up-to-date as he’d thought, and angry about it. I didn’t say he’s right to be that way or to take it out on Decker — he’s not, McCoy specifically calls him out on it, and frankly this is probably the biggest reason he needs McCoy there… and he knows it. This is completely believable, given that Kirk’s basically been stewing in not being who/what he used to be and is desperately trying to get back to that.
Also doesn't help that Decker is visually a young Kirk in his prime.
 
That’s entirely fair. I’ve always thought most of the widely-beloved First Contact is a dog of a movie (after the great 24th-century opening). It’s all taste.
I think the biggest downside to me is the feeling of meanspirited punishment of Kirk for daring to take on more leadership role in Starfleet. It basically says that being a captain is the peak of accomplishment and to go beyond that is to be punished. It's not intentional; I think the goal is along the lines of what you describe but the intro to Kirk is very strange.
 
I think the biggest downside to me is the feeling of meanspirited punishment of Kirk for daring to take on more leadership role in Starfleet. It basically says that being a captain is the peak of accomplishment and to go beyond that is to be punished. It's not intentional; I think the goal is along the lines of what you describe but the intro to Kirk is very strange.

I guess, but Kirk’s always been consistently portrayed in that way regarding going “above” starship command. It’s not that Starfleet considers it punishment or that becoming an Admiral is unworthy by any means; most would see it as a properly earned promotion. It’s just that Kirk himself will always be happier with the center seat than with a desk job, and he’s unhappy every time he gets bumped up (like when it happens all over again before TWOK). McCoy and Spock both see it in TWOK, and Kirk spells out how he feels about it to Picard in Generations. It’s not that moving up is bad, it’s just that he personally only feels happy with active, personal command. Most captains-to-admirals would probably disagree, but that’s why they’re not Jim Kirk.

(Sisko does just fine as an effective admiral, even if 90s TV being weird about it prevents him from getting the rank he ought to have. Really, he should have been made Captain on taking command of the station in the first place, been promoted to Commodore around the time he canonically was made Captain, and certainly should have been an Admiral by the time he was directing fleet wings in battle.)
 
It’s just that Kirk himself will always be happier with the center seat than with a desk job, and he’s unhappy every time he gets bumped up (like when it happens all over again before TWOK). McCoy and Spock both see it in TWOK, and Kirk spells out how he feels about it to Picard in Generations. It’s not that moving up is bad, it’s just that he personally only feels happy with active, personal command. Most captains-to-admirals would probably disagree, but that’s why they’re not Jim Kirk.
And this dynamic plays out yet again in Beyond.
 
guess, but Kirk’s always been consistently portrayed in that way regarding going “above” starship command. It’s not that Starfleet considers it punishment or that becoming an Admiral is unworthy by any means; most would see it as a properly earned promotion.
Which is why it feels mean spirited. You take Kirk and say "sucks to be you."
 
Can see where you’re coming from, and it was a common criticism; but as I read it, the warmth is back at the end because it’s been earned. It hadn’t yet been, at the start, and everybody starts the story off-kilter — even V’Ger. About the only major characters who don’t are Scotty (because reengineering everything? he’s in his element! So he’s the guy we’ve always known from the start) and Ilia (because she doesn’t get a character arc, only the Probe does; Ilia walks in already seeming to know she’s awesome and belongs, history with Deckard notwithstanding).
Ilia also walks in and basically declares to the bridge crew, in response to Kirk's welcome, that she's not going to be having sex with them. Now, we hardcore fans know the backstory behind that, but the average audience member does not, and without the Deltan backstory that ended up being omitted, it's a really strange way to say hello. :lol:
 
Can see where you’re coming from, and it was a common criticism; but as I read it, the warmth is back at the end because it’s been earned. It hadn’t yet been, at the start, and everybody starts the story off-kilter — even V’Ger. About the only major characters who don’t are Scotty (because reengineering everything? he’s in his element! So he’s the guy we’ve always known from the start) and Ilia (because she doesn’t get a character arc, only the Probe does; Ilia walks in already seeming to know she’s awesome and belongs, history with Deckard notwithstanding).
I enjoyed watching Kirk and Spock and McCoy reuniting and reestablishing their mutual friendship. I think TMP in that context was saying friendship is not always easy yet rewarding for its sake.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top