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If Cancer Were Cured...would it be bad?

As the Rolling Stones, sang, "You're so cold, you must've born in an arctic zone!"

Sadly, there seems to be a lot of that in this thread. :(

I can't believe we are even still debating this. Not even the most unemotional Vulcan would be so cold-blooded, so utterly compassionless and without regard for human suffering, as to question the need for a cancer cure.

I couldn't give two shits about 'ethical frameworks' or 'wicked problems' or any of that crap. That is all utterly irrelevant to me. What matters is curing sick people. That's it. If we found a cure for cancer right this minute, what are we supposed to do with it? Throw it away? Millions of people die EVERY DAY because of cancer. To suggest we shouldn't cure cancer is to suggest that they deserve to die - that my dad, for example, should have died. Now, call me crazy, but that attitude really FUCKING SUCKS! :mad:
 
^ Christ, it's just a hypothetical as to the possible result of curing cancer.

Chill out.
 
Christ, it's just a hypothetical as to the possible result of curing cancer.

Chill out.

Don't tell me to chill out! :mad: I think I've made it clear by now why that's not possible.

I don't give a crap about *results*. The only results I care about are people who were sick, and will now be healthy. Anything else is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to me. As it should be to anyone. It isn't only old people who die from cancer, you know! And even if it was, would that make it any better? Should we just let all the oldies die so we won't have to take care of them anymore? Hell, why not just have the 'Resolution' and be done with it? See where that kind of reasoning leads?
 
There is no need to repeat yourself, I read it fine the first two times.

The vast majority of people in this thread, especially Holdfast whose arguments you have completely misrepresented, are just speculating as to the impact on the whole of society if cancer were cured.

There's no attitude, he's not suggesting we throw away a cure, its purely hypothetical. And it's a perfectly valid consideration.
 
just speculating as to the impact on the whole of society if cancer were cured.

Why? What's the point? A lot of people who were sick, will be healthy. What other outcome should we even care about? To question the need to cure cancer is to believe that its patients just might deserve to die. That is unconscionable. :(
 
Well, it's entirely your business whether you choose to become so emotionally riled up about a theoretical & philosophical discussion.

But I do think I've answered your question about "what other outcome should we even care about?"
 
The populations effects of curing cancer is similar to curing heart disease. These are the number 1 and 2 killers of the elderly. There would be a population explosion as a result. Strictly looking at the elderly, this population would outstrip the youth. The elderly use more medical resources and drugs which would put a strain on economic resources to pay for those same resources and drugs. Compounding this, would be that this same elderly population are retired, they wouldn't be "productive" members of society. Meaning, they wouldn't be the firemen, policemen, etc. that help make society what it is.

Of course, if we found a cure for alzheimer's and arthritis, that same elderly population would be able to go back to work and be productive members of society. They would be generating taxable income to help pay for the healthcare burden, too.

Is it worthwhile to seek a cure for cancer. Of course it is. At the same time, lets find a cure for other diseases, too.
 
On a personal level, any of us would want a cure for a loved one with cancer. Stepping back and looking at the overall system... less cancer means larger aging populations who need time and resouces spending to look after them.

If we could cure alzheimer's and arthritis, and anything else stopping the elderly from working then.. aren't you effectively stopping them aging too? I mean something's got to give, at some point, and render a person unable to work, unless you have something like the anti-aging treatments in the Mars trilogy.

And that raises questions of its own.
 
Why? What's the point? A lot of people who were sick, will be healthy. What other outcome should we even care about?
A lot of sick people being healthy isn't the only outcome to consider. Let's suppose that a cure is developed, but it is VERY expensive--let's say $10,000,000 per person. Currently, somewhere in the neighborhood of 500,000 people die from cancer a year, so that's $5 trillion per year to cure them. That's a lot of people, but is it worth 1/3 of our GDP and over double the government's current spending? Even if it was only $1,000,000, it would still cost $500 billion. Is that worth it? That's a lot of other people that would go without help, or jobs, or whatever.

Here's some more hypotheticals: suppose the cure required some component that could only be obtained from other people at great personal sacrifice (perhaps a limb, or vital organ, or even their lives). Would that be worth it? Or instead of people, curing one person required the death of hundreds of animals? Or perhaps it caused significant environmental damage? Of course, these hypotheticals are very unlikely, but the point remains. Making sick people healthy is a noble cause, but it will come with a price of some sort. This may seem cold and heartless, but if the price is greater suffering overall, then we need to think about whether it is worth it.

The populations effects of curing cancer is similar to curing heart disease. These are the number 1 and 2 killers of the elderly. There would be a population explosion as a result. Strictly looking at the elderly, this population would outstrip the youth. The elderly use more medical resources and drugs which would put a strain on economic resources to pay for those same resources and drugs. Compounding this, would be that this same elderly population are retired, they wouldn't be "productive" members of society. Meaning, they wouldn't be the firemen, policemen, etc. that help make society what it is.

Of course, if we found a cure for alzheimer's and arthritis, that same elderly population would be able to go back to work and be productive members of society. They would be generating taxable income to help pay for the healthcare burden, too.

Is it worthwhile to seek a cure for cancer. Of course it is. At the same time, lets find a cure for other diseases, too.
This is the point I was trying to make with my first post. You said it better. However, there is one issue with your second paragraph. Good luck getting the elderly who've been looking forward to retirement for 30 years to go back to work just because you cured their arthritis. Most people start their career with their sights set on retiring aroung 65. Do you want to work until you're 80? 90?

As you pointed out, the elderly population will be larger than the younger population. That, along with their greater experience at organizing and getting things done, and their greater amounts of time and energy to devote to causes, will make it impossible. As it is, AARP has a lot of power for those reasons and opposes any legislation that takes anything away from the elderly or requires any more sacrifice from them. They don't seem to care that it's their children and grandchildren who pay the price. Imagine what they could do if they had even more power by having the majority of the population with them. You would never get them to back to being productive.
 
If people continue to live longer and healthier, no matter what the reason(s) may be, they will have to retire from working later. That's simple economics and it has already started in the UK, where the government is actively considering putting the pension age up to 67.
 
You said it better. However, there is one issue with your second paragraph. Good luck getting the elderly who've been looking forward to retirement for 30 years to go back to work just because you cured their arthritis. Most people start their career with their sights set on retiring aroung 65. Do you want to work until you're 80? 90?

As you pointed out, the elderly population will be larger than the younger population. That, along with their greater experience at organizing and getting things done, and their greater amounts of time and energy to devote to causes, will make it impossible. As it is, AARP has a lot of power for those reasons and opposes any legislation that takes anything away from the elderly or requires any more sacrifice from them. They don't seem to care that it's their children and grandchildren who pay the price. Imagine what they could do if they had even more power by having the majority of the population with them. You would never get them to back to being productive.

Yes, I figured this same elderly population wouldn't want to go back to work or retire later, but I think that they would have to, unless they could afford not to work.

Yes, AARP has a lot of power, but if there was no money to pay for healthcare, or the bankruptcy of Medicare, they would have to back off on this stance.
 
I'm all for curing any disease. Infrastructures, "fragile" or otherwise, are nice to ponder but are really of interest only to live human beings. If someone you care about is dying there's no reason you should give a fuck about the health of the social infrastructure.
 
I'm all for curing any disease. Infrastructures, "fragile" or otherwise, are nice to ponder but are really of interest only to live human beings. If someone you care about is dying there's no reason you should give a fuck about the health of the social infrastructure.
If you are the one establishing policy and health care priorities, you do care. What do you choose if you can cure one 80-year-old person's cancer or immunize 100,000 kids against polio, measles, mumps, diptheria, etc.? You have the money for one or the other, but not both.
 
I'm all for curing any disease. Infrastructures, "fragile" or otherwise, are nice to ponder but are really of interest only to live human beings. If someone you care about is dying there's no reason you should give a fuck about the health of the social infrastructure.
If you are the one establishing policy and health care priorities, you do care. What do you choose if you can cure one 80-year-old person's cancer or immunize 100,000 kids against polio, measles, mumps, diptheria, etc.? You have the money for one or the other, but not both.

False dichotomy.
 
just speculating as to the impact on the whole of society if cancer were cured.

Why? What's the point? A lot of people who were sick, will be healthy.

And quite possibly starving.

People do, in fact, have to die at some point to make room for other people.

But we'd have more money to feed the starving as we wouldn't be soaked so much by the medical industry. Perhaps then universal healthcare would be realistic.
 
I'm all for curing any disease. Infrastructures, "fragile" or otherwise, are nice to ponder but are really of interest only to live human beings. If someone you care about is dying there's no reason you should give a fuck about the health of the social infrastructure.
If you are the one establishing policy and health care priorities, you do care. What do you choose if you can cure one 80-year-old person's cancer or immunize 100,000 kids against polio, measles, mumps, diptheria, etc.? You have the money for one or the other, but not both.

False dichotomy.
How is it a false dichotomy? I set up a hypothetical situation where there are enough resources to do one or the other. Of course that specific situation isn't likely, but the concept is the same as what would happen. Resources are not infinite; we cannot afford all medical treatment for anyone who might need it without bankrupting society. Your comment stated that the disease should be cured, not matter the cost. I was pointing out that it is possible for the cost to be very high, perhaps higher than the benefit of curing the disease. In reality, if a cure were developed, it would not come without other costs, societal and financial. This thread was started to discuss what these costs might be, and how high. To say that it should be cured, no matter the cost, may be making the assumption that the value of the life of one cancer victim is greater than anything else that could be done with those resources. I find the idea of putting a price on a life to be abhorrent. But everything has a price. The price (financial or societal) of curing cancer may be very small, or it may result in societal upheaval that could cost more lives than what is saved by the cure, or it could be anywhere in between. We just don't know, and we won't know for sure until it happens.
 
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