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IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

In any case, it was primarily the movies (especially TSFS) that created the stereotype of Kirk as an orders-defying renegade, and the movie audience and the broader public mainly know Trek from the movies, so the more recent movies are following the precedent set by the earlier ones. As for Spock, he was also more emotional in the movies, starting with his "This simple feeling" epiphany in TMP. When he was brought back to life, TVH had him quickly recapitulate the same journey to accepting that emotions matter, accomplishing in mere days what had taken him decades the first time around; and that continued through to TUC, where he taught Valeris that logic was merely the beginning of wisdom. The Abrams movies, again, are following the precedent of the earlier movies, quickly getting Spock to a position where his emotions were closer to the surface than they were on TV. So this is not about Abrams and his collaborators' personal tastes or talent; this is about movies following the precedent of movies, because their audience does not completely overlap with the television fanbase and thus has different expectations and preferences. I think it likely that if someone other than Abrams had been given the job of rebooting TOS, they would still have given us a more hotheaded Kirk and a more emotional Spock, because those are the established feature-film versions of the characters and what the general public wants and expects. At least Abrams and his team have come up with legitimate explanations for why the characters are different -- Kirk had a rougher upbringing and Spock lost his mother and his planet.
 
I didn't play the game, but based on the comic, it seems Abrams Gorn are meant to be a vicious war-like race, which doesn't really fit with Arena. In Arena, I get the impression the Gorn are reasonable and rational race who were only responding to what they thought was an invasion of their territory.

Considering that in the game if you scan so Gorn tech you get a back story for them where you learn that these Gorn are likely the product of uncounted generations of genetic engineering.

So yeah these Gorn being a vicious war-like race actually is sensible considering that pretty much what augmented humans were like in comparison to unaltered humans.
 
^Maybe some extragalactic race abducted some Gorn, took them home, and engineered them into a more warlike form? Sort of like what the Aegis did with Gary Seven's ancestors, only with more malevolent intent?
 
I thought the Abramsverse Gorn of the games/comics was handled very well. I even sprang for the numbered statue that was available in the startrek.com shop. It sits proudly in my nerd cave :cool:
You accept all the traits of the "Gorn" like that they came from another galaxy? :borg::borg::borg::borg::borg:

Why not? Is there anything in the Gorn backstory that contradicts them coming from another galaxy at some point in their past?
An ENT episode had an Orion guy mentioning that the Gorn were the best brewers of a certain drink in local space. In the 22nd century. And the mirror ENT episodes had a Gorn who had been hired by the Tholians. Also in the 22nd century. The game portrays them as an extragalactic race of conquerors who just arrived in Federation territory because of "rips" in space created by an experimental Vulcan technology. But even if you accept that this "extragalactic offshoot" of Gorn existed in the prime reality all along, I think that the Abramsverse guys deny that the Milky Way Gorn Hegemony exists. :klingon:
 
But even if you accept that this "extragalactic offshoot" of Gorn existed in the prime reality all along, I think that the Abramsverse guys deny that the Milky Way Gorn Hegemony exists. :klingon:

I haven't played the game or read the comic issue, but I have the opposite impression: That the reason they made these "Gorn" extragalactic and genetically engineered was to avoid direct conflict with what we know about the Gorn of our galaxy.

Also, of course, whatever claims may have been made, I doubt very much that the video game is any more canonical than the comics. Its ideas probably come more from the game developers than from Abrams and his "Supreme Court."

In fact, there was a Gorn extra in one of the deleted Rura Penthe scenes in the 2009 movie. Of course, deleted scenes are no more canonical than tie-ins, but this suggests to me that the "Supreme Court" did intend the Gorn of our galaxy to exist in this timeline, albeit with a modified appearance.
 
But even if you accept that this "extragalactic offshoot" of Gorn existed in the prime reality all along, I think that the Abramsverse guys deny that the Milky Way Gorn Hegemony exists. :klingon:

I haven't played the game or read the comic issue, but I have the opposite impression: That the reason they made these "Gorn" extragalactic and genetically engineered was to avoid direct conflict with what we know about the Gorn of our galaxy.

Also, of course, whatever claims may have been made, I doubt very much that the video game is any more canonical than the comics. Its ideas probably come more from the game developers than from Abrams and his "Supreme Court."

In fact, there was a Gorn extra in one of the deleted Rura Penthe scenes in the 2009 movie. Of course, deleted scenes are no more canonical than tie-ins, but this suggests to me that the "Supreme Court" did intend the Gorn of our galaxy to exist in this timeline, albeit with a modified appearance.
For my part, I deride whoever came up with the Gorn extra you mentioned, whoever came up with the extragalactic Gorn, and whoever created the Blingons. :brickwall:
 
At least every Klingon that came after TMP could easily be identified as a Klingon. The Klingon in STID could have been any other race, he does't even remotely look Klingon!
 
For my part, I deride whoever came up with the Gorn extra you mentioned, whoever came up with the extragalactic Gorn, and whoever created the Blingons. :brickwall:
With the exception of the videogame Gorn, that would be Neville Page. You might recognize him as one of the judges on Face Off.
At least every Klingon that came after TMP could easily be identified as a Klingon. The Klingon in STID could have been any other race, he does't even remotely look Klingon!
Not sure if serious.:vulcan:
 
At least every Klingon that came after TMP could easily be identified as a Klingon. The Klingon in STID could have been any other race, he does't even remotely look Klingon!
I don't see where the new Klingon makeup in STID is that much of a change from what we had. It's a much more subtle change than the TOS-TMP-TSFS transition.
 
I don't see where the new Klingon makeup in STID is that much of a change from what we had. It's a much more subtle change than the TOS-TMP-TSFS transition.

Absolutely. Quoting a post I wrote a while back comparing the various types of Klingon over the years:

"Errand of Mercy": "Alien Mongol" look with brown-green pancake makeup, short hair, bifurcated eyebrows; all Klingons clean-shaven except for Kor and his lieutenant, who wore goatees (more or less).

"Friday's Child": Completely human-looking, with full beard, short hair.

"The Trouble With Tribbles": Still human-looking; goatees on featured Klingons, but some background Klingons beardless.

"A Private Little War"/third season: Back to the dark makeup and bushy eyebrows; goatees and short hair still standard on males, though some extras in "Day of the Dove" have just mustache or soul patch, and at least one is clean-shaven.

ST:TAS: Stylized version of finalized TOS look. Female Klingon with thinner brows, afro-style hair.

ST:TMP: Major redesign: head bald on top, single massive vertebral ridge extends along middle of head; bridge of nose also ridged. Beards, bushy eyebrows retained. Hair medium-short and backswept.

ST III: Single row of vertebrae replaced with wide bony plate, individualized for each Klingon. Noses now smooth. Long-haired look debuts. Female Klingon (Valkris) has much subtler ridges.

ST:TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT (debuting 1987): Much like ST III design, but restoring TMP-style nose ridges. Female ridges now just as pronounced as male, except in hybrids (and in abortive female-Klingon design seen briefly in "Hide and Q," with narrow ridges bifurcating full head of hair).

ST V/VI (debuting 1989): Similar to STIII, but with subtler, less protruding forehead plates. Noses smooth. Females again have very subtle ridges, and Chang barely has any. Long hair and various beard designs still standard, though Chang is bald with slight mustache.

STID: The one Klingon we've seen so far has a cranial plate and ridges similar to the previous three designs, though perhaps a bit more bulbous and with subtler ridges. His eyes seem unusually light, though it's hard to be sure. He is bald and clean-shaven, though reports suggest that others have hair. Ears and (by one report) ridges are pierced, adorned with rings.​


The Klingon look has been evolving for decades, and this isn't any more radical than the changes we've seen before. It's still just a variation on the basic design template that's been standard since 1984. The only real novelties are the eye color (apparently) and the piercings and masks.

Really, the only reason some people are objecting to the new design is because it's new -- because they haven't had time to get used to it as they have with all the other, widely varying Klingon designs we've had over the years.
 
At least the klingons look more like klingons than the caitians look like caitians
 
I don't see where the new Klingon makeup in STID is that much of a change from what we had. It's a much more subtle change than the TOS-TMP-TSFS transition.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. If I had seen the STID Klingon out of context, I never would have guessed that he's supposed to be a Klingon. I wish they had kept the helmets on, which I thought were a brilliant compromise.
 
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Also, of course, whatever claims may have been made, I doubt very much that the video game is any more canonical than the comics. Its ideas probably come more from the game developers than from Abrams and his "Supreme Court."

Abrams himself disavowed the game and claimed it hurt STID's box office performance (story). I'd say that tells us all we need to know about the game's canonical value.
 
I don't see where the new Klingon makeup in STID is that much of a change from what we had. It's a much more subtle change than the TOS-TMP-TSFS transition.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. If I had seen the STID Klingon out of context, I never would have guessed that he's supposed to be a Klingon. I wish they had kept the helmets on, which I thought were a brilliant compromise.
Really? I think it would have been pretty clear they were Klingons as long as I knew I was watching Star Trek.
 
Yeah, they were obviously Klingons. Like I said, the differences are no greater than those between, say, Lt. Worf's makeup (Michael Westmore design) and Col. Worf's makeup (Richard Snell design) -- and considerably less than the difference between either of those and the TMP Klingons. This is your standard post-1984 Klingon design -- dark complexion, wide bony head plate with a knobbly central ridge and less pronounced ridges along the temples, and a prominent nose.

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/klingon_uhura.jpg

Of course there's a difference in execution, but that's because different artists are designing them, and they have every right to bring their own interpretations to the art. It's like in comic books -- the way John Romita, Jr. draws Peter Parker is very different from the way John Romita, Sr. drew him, but they're both meant to be the same face. Ditto for John Byrne's Superman vs. Frank Quitely's. Sometimes fans forget that Star Trek is a creative work, not a documentary, and that creators are allowed to put their own individual stamps on a shared creation. There's no objectively "right" way to design a Klingon, because Klingons are not real things, they are artistic constructs. And the artists who create them have every right in the world to interpret them in fresh ways. Fans who complain about artists being creative rather than slavishly imitative of prior artists' work are biting the hand that feeds them, because if artists weren't free to be creative, the fans wouldn't have anything to enjoy at all.
 
At least the klingons look more like klingons than the caitians look like caitians

They were scripted as Caitians but, in interviews, the actresses described being put in all manner of appliances that weren't used, including felinoid ears. So just 'cos the script says they're Caitians doesn't mean they are.

Similarly, the Andorian thrall in James Blish's novelization of "Gamesters of Triskelion" is a red-skinned alien with a flap of flesh for a nasal covering (perhaps originally scripted that way?), and Thelin the Andorian of "Yesteryear" is scripted as blue, not grey.

Billy Van Zandt's species was described in publicity materials as "a Rhaandarite", but originally scripted as a "high-domed Vegan", and the actor didn't know of the Rhaaandarite term being coined until the commercial material started coming out for the film's premiere. During filming, he was a Vegan and a "Bumphead".
 
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