Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by serenitytrek1, Nov 21, 2012.
A lot of things in Star Trek are "generally accepted" that aren't remotely true.
I generally accept that.
Well here's what I've gathered about alternate reality dates
Star Trek 2009 prologue 2233.04
Star Trek: Nero #1 to #4 various points from 2233 to 2258
Star Trek 2009 other early scenes various points from 2233 to 2255
Star Trek 2009 main story 2258.42 or 2258.44 (Kirk couldn't remember exactly)
#1 2258.2...5... .5...6...? (Scotty couldn't remember exactly)
#2 1313.1 (makes no sense)
#3 "The Galileo Seven, Part 1" 2821.5 to 2823.3 (makes no sense)
#4 "The Galileo Seven, Part 2" no stardate given
#5 "Operation - Annihilate!, Part 1" main story no stardate given; beginning flashback is set after the Kirk's car theft scene in Star Trek 2009
#6 "Operation - Annihilate!, Part 2" no stardate given
#7 "Vulcan's Vengeance, Part 1" no stardate given however the issue has the Enterprise leaving Starbase 10 which is what they were heading at the end of the previous issue
#8 "Vulcan's Vengeance, Part 2" no stardate given
#9 "The Return of the Archons, Part 1" 2258.241; beginning flashback is "18 months ago" after Sulu has been given his assignment to the Enterprise
#10 "The Return of the Archons, Part 2" no stardate given
presumably this is the divide between 2258 and 2259
#11 "The Truth About Tribbles, Part 1" main story 2259.55; beginning flashback to the Kirk and Spock Prime meet Scotty scene in Star Trek 2009
#12 "The Truth About Tribbles, Part 2" no stardate given
#13 "The Redshirt's Tale" frame story 2259.23; Hendorff says thanks to his parents for "the Christmas vid" and "sorry it's taken this long to get back to you".
#14 unnamed story about Keenser no stardate given for frame story; main story begins in 2230 on Royla and continues to Star Trek 2009
#15 "Mirrored, Part 1" 2258.56 note however that the issue is apparently just a story that Scotty tells
#16 "Mirrored, Part 2" no stardate given
#17 "Bones" frame story 2258.247; main story goes through McCoy's early life to Star Trek 2009
#18 "The Voice of a Falling Star" set entirely before Star Trek 2009; begins with Uhura in class with Spock; "several months later" depicts Spock and Uhura's first mind meld to Uhura's childhood; no stardate given
#19 "Scotty" set at various points in Scotty's life from 2231 to "Delta Vega" just before Star Trek 2009
#20 "Red Level Down" set during Sulu and Chekov's academy years; concludes as the Enterprise departs Earth for Vulcan in Star Trek 2009
Star Trek: Countdown to Darkness no stardates given; flashback to circa 2239. Since the Enterprise was on a scheduled survey of Phaedus IV, I place CtD before the video game since in the video game the Enterprise heads to Helios Station on a distress call but both works end with Admiral Pike ordering the Enterprise to Nibiru. I assume that the Enterprise was en route to Nibiru from Phaedus IV, diverted to Helios Station, and then resumed course to Nibiru, but I guess this is up to interpretation.
Star Trek video game 2259.32 to 2259.33
Star Trek Into Darkness main story 2259.55
Khan #1 to #4 frame story 2259.246; main stories are set from November 1971 to 1996 and over roughly 5 months from 2258 to 2259
Star Trek Into Darkness epilogue at the rededication ceremony of the Enterprise Kirk states the exposure of Marcus's conspiracy to be "nearly a year ago" so it could be late 2259 or early 2260. I like to think that the Enterprise sets out for its 5 year mission on the neat and clean date of January 1, 2260
#21 "After Darkness, Part 1" has a prologue set a week before its main story which has the Enterprise out in space. No date is given, but the main story presumably takes place right after the epilogue of Star Trek Into Darkness.
#22 "After Darkness, Part 2" no date given
#23 "After Darkness, Part 3" no date given
#24 no title; features the "Gorn" from the video game 2260.115
#25 "The Khitomer Conflict, Part 1" 2261.147; Starting with this issue the dates are apparently in 2261 but Yuki Sulu states "A five-year mission. Who could pass that up?"
#26 "The Khitomer Conflict, Part 2" no stardate given
#27 "The Khitomer Conflict, Part 3" 2261.149
#28 "The Khitomer Conflict, Part 4" 2261.168; beginning flashback mistakenly states the destruction of Vulcan by the Narada to be 4 years ago
#29 "Parallel Lives, Part 1" 2261.274; Jane Kirk states "but we're already underway into our five-year mission into uncharted space" even though it's way into 2261 by the stardate.
#30 "Parallel Lives, Part 2" 2261.234 (yes, the stardate in the text is lower than in the previous issue)
#31 "I, Enterprise, Part 1" no stardate given for frame story but Science Officer 0718 states the main story to begin "precisely two years, twenty-seven days, forty-three minutes, and seven seconds ago" so presumably soon before Star Trek Into Darkness
#32 "I, Enterprise, Part 2" presumably follows main story of previous issue
So there you go. Apologies if there any errors.
I disagree with that interpretation since it is far too coincidental that Scotty just thinks up a universe where Starfleet serves an evil Terran Empire and that Spock Prime had an encounter with.
You're willing to accept a story where:
Gorkon is already Chancellor in 2258 and wears a helmet? (It should be Regent since it's a variation of the mirror universe and whatever is the point of the helmets?)
A Captain leads the conquest of Qo'noS (Shouldn't it be an admiral?)
The Enterprise (most likely also a flagship of Starfleet and its nation overall) is crewed by senior officers who are too young and have done too little in the name of their service?
Christopher Pike is a Terran Senator and a superior of the Enterprise (Imperial Starfleet issues should be handled by admirals, not the legislature) (and since when is the Terran Empire organized like the Romulan Star Empire?)
The artist mistakenly drew the I.S.S. Enterprise to look like a prime universe refit Constitution class
The writer mistakenly calls San Francisco the "capitol" of the Terran Empire (it should be "capital")
Earth and Vulcan are apparently "allies" in the empire (Vulcan should be a subject world of the Terran Empire, not an equal)
You may accept all this, but my opinion of Mirrored overall? It is an exemplum of how the ongoing comic is too lazy or else somehow unwilling to do alternate universe stories that are not carbon copies of the Abramsverse and the important characters and elements are ONLY from Star Trek 2009. Just look at unfulfilling Parallel Lives was.
Oh, I agree the Mirrored story is flawed, but then so are most of the Abramsverse comics in general. I just don't agree with the interpretation that it's "just a story Scotty told."
Although, in regards to some of your points.
Since all Klingons wore the helmets in Trek XI's deleted scenes and none were seen without one, the nature of IDW's license meant any Abramsverse Klingons had to be identical to what we saw in that movie, for reasons of brand recognition. Therefore, Gorkon had to wear a helmet.
I don't recall it being mentioned they had a fleet with them.
But then that's the same as the Abramsverse itself, so why hold that specifically against Mirrored?
Perhaps the Terran Empire has influences of Rome? The are ruled by an emperor and if dialogue were to be taken literally from Mirror, Mirror, he is addressed as "Caesar."
The artist did the same with the USS Enterprise in the opening pages of the book, and more glaring is ISS Enterprise having the registry NCC-1701-D. Not to mention all the 24th century LCARS computer displays seen throughout the entire Ongoing line.
Vulcan being a subject world of the Terran Empire comes from Enterprise. Based on Mirror, Mirror, there's no indication the Vulcans are subjects. Indeed, quite the opposite given Spock was officially the first officer of the Enterprise, and that Starfleet was going to assign him command of the ship. Not to mention, Spock's reference to Vulcan operatives practically scared the piss out of Sulu, not the reaction one would expect the "master race" to have in regards to "slaves."
Point taken about Mirrored.
But that reminds me about something. If Mirrored does indeed depict a unique quantum reality with a Narada and Jellyfish incursion, does that confirm that the Abramsverse was already a quantum reality of its own, simply nigh-identical to the prime reality and that the artificial black hole from Star Trek 2009 was intertemporal AND interphasic? Additionally, Parallel Lives didn't specify the genders of its versions of Spock Prime and Nero, meaning that they could also be male and not female Leonard Nimoy and Eric Bana. It seems to me that this gives credence to the idea of the Abramsverse being a pre-existing quantum reality.
^It doesn't confirm anything, since the comics aren't canonical. It's just how the writer chose to interpret it.
The official party line from Abrams and his pals is that both the Prime Universe and the Abramsverse share the same history until Nero's arrival and subsequent destruction of the Kelvin in 2233. Certainly STID seems to support this with the models of the Phoenix, Ringship Enterprise, NX test module and NX-01 seen in Marcus's office.
IDW on the other hand seems to be depicting the Abramsverse as a separate alternate reality even before 2233. But since the comics aren't canon, this interpretation doesn't really mean anything.
Still though, if Roberto Orci himself oversees the IDW Abramsverse comics, then to me, that is a significant contradiction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMt3SzAH_i0
Not really. He's a very busy film and TV producer, so he could only devote a limited amount of time and attention to such oversight. He may be able to keep on the same page with Johnson where the broad strokes are concerned, but not be able to devote enough attention to get all the details straight. We saw something similar with the original run of Dell Babylon 5 novels: J. Michael Straczynski tried to ride herd on them and keep them canonical, but he was too busy with the show to catch every detail, and so ultimately only two of them -- including the one written by his own wife -- were accurate enough to be considered canonical. It wasn't until the show was over and he was no longer so busy that he was able to give the books his full attention.
Not to mention that Orci is not the top decision-maker on the films themselves, just one member of the team. So he could okay something for the comics, believing it to be consistent with a film as it stands at the time, but then Abrams could change his mind about something three weeks later and create a contradiction too late for the comic to do anything about it.
2257 check this http://www.idwpublishing.com/startrek/timelines.php
This chart puts After Darkness in 2259, though. In my opinion, that's too much of a stretch for "nearly a year ago" if Star Trek Into Darkness's main story took place at the end of February.
Which can't be right, because STID ended in 2260. But as we know, the reference to that one-year gap was inserted late in post-production, so the comics creators weren't aware of it.
Well at least #24, even if it did feature the nonsense Gorn, has a stardate set in 2260. And I don't think After Darkness had any stardates in the text.
I still would like to hear from the genius who jumped the stardates to 2261 with The Khitomer Conflict ,though.
What's nonsense about the Gorn of the extragalactic Gorn Armada, except that they are mysteriously connected to the Gorn of the Gorn Hegemony native to Milkyway?
I thought the Abramsverse Gorn of the games/comics was handled very well. I even sprang for the numbered statue that was available in the startrek.com shop. It sits proudly in my nerd cave
You accept all the traits of the "Gorn" like that they came from another galaxy?
Why not? Is there anything in the Gorn backstory that contradicts them coming from another galaxy at some point in their past?
I didn't play the game, but based on the comic, it seems Abrams Gorn are meant to be a vicious war-like race, which doesn't really fit with Arena. In Arena, I get the impression the Gorn are reasonable and rational race who were only responding to what they thought was an invasion of their territory. And then on DS9 we learn they eventually gave Cestus III to the Federation anyway, hardly what one would expect from a vicious and war-like race.
Unfortunately, the is an extension of the problem with the Abramsverse, in that it is only about reimagining Star Trek from what is remembered most in pop culture, like Kirk being a bad boy womanizer, Spock losing emotional control, the "KHAN!!!" line and so on. And of course, Captain Kirk fighting the lizard man is very much a thing in pop culture.
Separate names with a comma.