I'd forgotten how little the Tholians are in "The Tholian Web."

[Marsden]

Compared to the Enterprise, the Tholian ships seemed fairly lame. Enterprise takes several shots before Spock responds with one phaser shot which seriously damages the Tholian vessel. Also, the Tholian sensors can't pick up the spatial interphase space phenomena. They suck, but they have balls to attack such a large opponent with such a small vessel.

When I saw this episode as a kid, I thought the Enterprise escaped though a small, unfinished hole in the web at the last second. I didn't understand then that when the Enterprise engaged full warp power, they actually disappeared into the spatial interphase and reappeared 2.72 parsecs away (~8.87 LY). That was surprising.

I wonder why they flip flop between the two units (parsecs vs. light years) in different episodes?

The Enterprise made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs!

 

[Henoch]

The Enterprise made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs!

I thought the Enterprise made the Kalandan run in 304 parsecs.

 

[Maurice]

I LOVE the way your Tholians "take out" the Tressaurian fighters. It's so perfectly 1968 in its, ahem, "execution"! A Romulan influenced "plasma" blob expands to envelope the ship, which then turns into a glowing red silhouette that expands a bit with a hazy border, and then cleanly fades from existence. Similar to what was done individual victims, but scaled up.

Thanks, I can't take credit for that effect, but one of the "rules" for the show was that it should look like something made in 1970 with techniques available at that time.

In the final act's "weirdspace" I did all kinds of stuff done with simulated double-exposures and and slot-mask animation and even an on-steroids swirling disc effect based on how they created a galaxy for the Rite of Spring segment of Fantasia.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I love this title.

I like it too. I just wish it had more to do with the plot.

And really, we do remember the episode mostly for the visuals, not the main plot. If we named it for something else we remember it for, it would be titled "The Enterprise Spacesuits."

Totally cool with the time it takes to spin the web, since Loskene's ship is damaged and it gives us an awesome ticking clock. Enterprise shows us how quickly it normally takes and they probably use more ships to do it.

Do they specifically say that Loskene's ship is damaged, or is that fanon?

I think that was just Spock being coolly sarcastic based on Loskene's admonition earlier "Be correct." I don't think Starfleet had ever encountered the Tholians before.

That's a good take on it: Spock was just mocking the Tholians, and not suggesting an unseen backstory. I'll bet that's all they meant by it. And it's a kind of dry wit to be so matter-of-fact in an insane situation. It's very Spock.

Zactly! I'm thinking also of "our ghost has materialized" from Elaan, or "I think not. Your authority on this ship is extremely limited" from Mirror, Mirror, or "Verbose, isn't he?" from Who Mourns. I'm rock solid comfortable that this is what the writers intended here.

Sounds very plausible and very in character for Spock. I think you've convinced me.

Judy Burns has said that the “renowned Tholian punctuality” a Nimoy ad lib, so it’s whatever Nimoy had in mind. Unfortunately we can’t ask him, so go with your own interpretation. Since they didn’t make a huge deal out of meeting a new race (“who are these Tholians, Spock?”) I was always of the mind they knew of them. Just because we didn’t meet them before doesn’t mean the Federation didn’t...

Absolutely. We'd never heard of the Klingons before "Errand of Mercy," but obviously the Federation had a long history with them.

Who is Judy Burns, though? I don't believe I've heard of her before.

The Tholian lighting environment could be in the ultraviolet spectrum based on the groovy blacklight fluorescent lighting effects. Humans light their environment with the visible light spectrum, so, there are probably aliens that see better in other light spectrums such as the ultraviolet or even the infrared. If the Tholians have a crystal-based culture, then they could have developed their environment that is fluorescent under UV light, too. Their architecture could be very geometric or crystal structural in appearance. This is a lot of extrapolation based on one scene, though.

Neat speculation!

I always wondered just how useful the Tholian Web could possibly be.

It seems to be designed for one very specific and contrived purpose, to immobilise starships which have already been immobilised and are taking no defensive action whatsoever.

I wonder why they flip flop between the two units (parsecs vs. light years) in different episodes?

For a show that also flip-flopped between miles and kilometers, that seems very par for the course.

 

[Delta Vega]

I liked the Tholians for their completely "out there" look, not typical aliens at all.
In the "The Tholian Web" the weaving of the actual energy web took forever and a day, so when the Tholians appeared in Enterprise and became fast movers in their scout ships, and mega fast weavers, I was pleasantly surprised.
A great bunch of lads.

 

[johnnybear]

The main story for the episode was the missing USS Defiant and then Kirk's seeming death or disappearance aboard said ship! The Tholians were more or less an added feature to the show despite them being in the title!
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

The main story for the episode was the missing USS Defiant and then Kirk's seeming death or disappearance aboard said ship! The Tholians were more or less an added feature to the show despite them being in the title!
JB

Sure, but the web, the Tholians and the visuals made it memorable.

Also Chekov....

Do they specifically say that Loskene's ship is damaged, or is that fanon?

It's not specifically stated in the dialog, but when the phasers hit, the ship tilts and floats off. In the original series, that usually meant the ship was pretty disabled. Sometimes you gotta go with the visuals to make your connections, and that was always a good cue for me.

Who is Judy Burns, though? I don't believe I've heard of her before.

Judy Burns and Chet Richards were the writers of the writers of the episode (with rewriting by Arthur Singer and Fred Freiberger, of course). I probably should have been more specific, she's not exactly a household name.

 

[publiusr]

Thanks, I can't take credit for that effect, but one of the "rules" for the show was that it should look like something made in 1970 with techniques available at that time..

Is it just me--or did it feel more like a century between the 1970s effects and the 1980s effects--when in fact, a lot hadn't changed.

 

[johnnybear]

I much prefer the effects of TOS to that of the movies with their rainbow trail in space after the Enterprise takes off and the overblown colours of outer space!
JB

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I much prefer the effects of TOS to that of the movies with their rainbow trail in space after the Enterprise takes off and the overblown colours of outer space!
JB

The first time I saw TMP, in December 1979, I was confused at the beginning because I didn't see a giant cloud-entity in space, and thus didn't know what was going on. I assumed at first that it was just one of those brightly colorful "vistas of the cosmos" that you'd see on Lost in Space or Space: 1999.

 

[johnnybear]

Well on VHS it was just misty blue lines and fizz!
JB

 

[Maurice]

Is it just me--or did it feel more like a century between the 1970s effects and the 1980s effects--when in fact, a lot hadn't changed.

The main thing that changed was the introduction of motion control cameras.

 

[Henoch]

Most TOS space battle happened at 10's of thousands of kilometers. The Tholian Web was being constructed just outside phaser range (I assume photon torpedo range, too). Previous episodes put phaser and photon torpedo range around 100 thousand kilometers (62,000 miles). A sphere of that radius would put a microscopic Enterprise (small dot) in the center of the 100 thousand kilometer radius web structure. If it was centered on the Earth, the structure would reach 26% to the moon with a ~1000 foot ship in the center. TOS on-screen visuals don't hold up. Sorry guys, no colorful, pretty anything to see here.

 

[Marsden]

It's not specifically stated in the dialog, but when the phasers hit, the ship tilts and floats off. In the original series, that usually meant the ship was pretty disabled. Sometimes you gotta go with the visuals to make your connections, and that was always a good cue for me.

Also:

SPOCK: The decision to fight was logical. Lack of time prevented any other course of action. The Tholian ship had to be disabled.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Also:

SPOCK: The decision to fight was logical. Lack of time prevented any other course of action. The Tholian ship had to be disabled.

Thanks! Forgot that dialog.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The Tholian Web was being constructed just outside phaser range (I assume photon torpedo range, too).

Well, that is a small problem. Having reviewed the online transcript, an explanation fails me. The dialogue puts the web too far away to make any sense.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Judy Burns and Chet Richards were the writers of the writers of the episode (with rewriting by Arthur Singer and Fred Freiberger, of course). I probably should have been more specific, she's not exactly a household name.

Thanks. There were so many new writers in the third season, and I watch those episodes so rarely, that I'm not really up on any of their names. I was assuming that she was either an assistant to Nimoy or someone who was one set for the shooting. But if she co-wrote the episode, she ought to know.

 

[Maurice]

Most TOS space battle happened at 10's of thousands of kilometers. The Tholian Web was being constructed just outside phaser range (I assume photon torpedo range, too). Previous episodes put phaser and photon torpedo range around 100 thousand kilometers (62,000 miles). A sphere of that radius would put a microscopic Enterprise (small dot) in the center of the 100 thousand kilometer radius web structure. If it was centered on the Earth, the structure would reach 26% to the moon with a ~1000 foot ship in the center. TOS on-screen visuals don't hold up. Sorry guys, no colorful, pretty anything to see here.

Maybe Sulu meant the ships were just outside hand phaser range.

 

[johnnybear]

Too far away or not the Enterprise was sealed up in the web like a fly and without the lucky escape the Enterprise had, none of them would have ever seen home again!
JB

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The Tholian Web was being constructed just outside phaser range (I assume photon torpedo range, too). Previous episodes put phaser and photon torpedo range around 100 thousand kilometers (62,000 miles). A sphere of that radius would put a microscopic Enterprise (small dot) in the center of the 100 thousand kilometer radius web structure. If it was centered on the Earth, the structure would reach 26% to the moon with a ~1000 foot ship in the center. TOS on-screen visuals don't hold up. Sorry guys, no colorful, pretty anything to see here.

I want another bite of the apple: the web starts out with this ungodly huge circumference, but as it is being built it contracts. The shrinking of the web causes the energy filaments to continuously become denser and stronger. By the time it shrinks to be within weapons range, it is phaser-proof. And if the Tholians want, as a coersive threat, it could keep right on contracting until it crushes the captured ship like Apollo's "hand" force field would.