I'd forgotten how little the Tholians are in "The Tholian Web."

[Ssosmcin]

I love this title. And really, we do remember the episode mostly for the visuals, not the main plot. If we named it for something else we remember it for, it would be titled "The Enterprise Spacesuits."

Totally cool with the time it takes to spin the web, since Loskene's ship is damaged and it gives us an awesome ticking clock. Enterprise shows us how quickly it normally takes and they probably use more ships to do it.

Oh, okay. How about.....

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They prefer little people. I got that from a little actor I've worked with.

 

[Phaser Two]

Spock talks about "The renowned Tholian punctuality," as if Starfleet is familiar with them from previous encounters.

I think that was just Spock being coolly sarcastic based on Loskene's admonition earlier "Be correct." I don't think Starfleet had ever encountered the Tholians before.

If the Enterprise moved, it would disturb the fragile space-fabric and Kirk would be lost.

But you make a good point about the web itself. If an enemy is already so disabled or neutralized that you can gradually spin this web around him, then the web isn't necessary. You could just capture him with a tractor beam or blow him to bits with a torpedo. The web does serve as an exotic, alien kind of creeping menace though, worthy of The Twilight Zone.

Yup. It's also possible that the Tholians had other means of dealing with intruders, but this was the one they chose to deal with a vessel they could not realistically overpower. (And wasn't it nice to see the Enterprise effectively using its weaponry, when presented with no other choice, as Spock's spoken debate over the use of force makes abundantly clear?) They also may have listened to Spock - or knew more about dimensional interphase than they were telling - and decided not to use more conventional weaponry.

The only dodgy bit about the web for me is how (in rough paraphrase) "using the ship's power has thrown us clear of it." Never clearly explained how this was achieved.

And none of it matters. The episode is fantastic. There are so many little touches that I love.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think that was just Spock being coolly sarcastic based on Loskene's admonition earlier "Be correct." I don't think Starfleet had ever encountered the Tholians before.

That's a good take on it: Spock was just mocking the Tholians, and not suggesting an unseen backstory. I'll bet that's all they meant by it. And it's a kind of dry wit to be so matter-of-fact in an insane situation. It's very Spock.

They also may have listened to Spock - or knew more about dimensional interphase than they were telling - and decided not to use more conventional weaponry.

Also good.

The only dodgy bit about the web for me is how (in rough paraphrase) "using the ship's power has thrown us clear of it." Never clearly explained how this was achieved.

SULU: It's the Captain. Sir, the tractor field is activating.
CHEKOV: We're being pulled out of here.
SPOCK: Try to maintain position Mister Sulu.
SULU: I can't, sir.
SPOCK: Engineering, bring ship's power up to full capability.
(There's a massive jolt, then the Enterprise disappears from inside the web and reappears in open space.)
UHURA: Where are we now, Mister Spock?
CHEKOV: Captain, we have destroyed the Tholians' web.
SPOCK: Negative, Ensign. Utilising ship's power has thrown us clear of it. Compute the distance from the original location.
CHEKOV: At once, sir.
UHURA: Have we lost the Captain?
SPOCK: We shall soon see, Lieutenant.
CHEKOV: The ship has been thrown exactly two point seven two parsecs distant from our previous position.
SPOCK: Good. Since the Captain was locked into our transporter beam when we were thrown clear of the interphase area, he should've been drawn here with us. Spock to transporter room.


- The Enterprise is fighting the Tholian tractor field, which is trying to drag the ship away from Kirk's location.

- The Tholians start winning the tug of war, so Spock has Scotty rev up the engines for real, because F--- 'em. No more pussyfooting around with these pipsqueaks.

- This blast of enormous power rips the damaged local "space fabric" a new one, causing the Enterprise to hurtle through a starless inter-dimensional tunnel and come out far from the battlefield, with Kirk in the transporter's grip. It's happened to all of us at one time or another.

 

[Phaser Two]

That's a good take on it: Spock was just mocking the Tholians, and not suggesting an unseen backstory. I'll bet that's all they meant by it. And it's a kind of dry wit to be so matter-of-fact in an insane situation. It's very Spock.

Zactly! I'm thinking also of "our ghost has materialized" from Elaan, or "I think not. Your authority on this ship is extremely limited" from Mirror, Mirror, or "Verbose, isn't he?" from Who Mourns. I'm rock solid comfortable that this is what the writers intended here.

Also good.

SULU: It's the Captain. Sir, the tractor field is activating.
CHEKOV: We're being pulled out of here.
SPOCK: Try to maintain position Mister Sulu.
SULU: I can't, sir.
SPOCK: Engineering, bring ship's power up to full capability.
(There's a massive jolt, then the Enterprise disappears from inside the web and reappears in open space.)
UHURA: Where are we now, Mister Spock?
CHEKOV: Captain, we have destroyed the Tholians' web.
SPOCK: Negative, Ensign. Utilising ship's power has thrown us clear of it. Compute the distance from the original location.
CHEKOV: At once, sir.
UHURA: Have we lost the Captain?
SPOCK: We shall soon see, Lieutenant.
CHEKOV: The ship has been thrown exactly two point seven two parsecs distant from our previous position.
SPOCK: Good. Since the Captain was locked into our transporter beam when we were thrown clear of the interphase area, he should've been drawn here with us. Spock to transporter room.


- The Enterprise is fighting the Tholian tractor field, which is trying to drag the ship away from Kirk's location.

- The Tholians start winning the tug of war, so Spock has Scotty rev up the engines for real, because F--- 'em. No more pussyfooting around with these pipsqueaks.

- This blast of enormous power rips the damaged local "space fabric" a new one, causing the Enterprise to hurtle through a starless inter-dimensional tunnel and come out far from the battlefield, with Kirk in the transporter's grip. It's happened to all of us at one time or another.

Indeed! And I think you just explained the sequence better than the episode - which otherwise registers 9.8 or so out of 10 on the Phaser Two Dialogueometer - does! Now I have something new to catch for next I watch this one. Nicely done.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Judy Burns has said that the “renowned Tholian punctuality” a Nimoy ad lib, so it’s whatever Nimoy had in mind. Unfortunately we can’t ask him, so go with your own interpretation. Since they didn’t make a huge deal out of meeting a new race (“who are these Tholians, Spock?”) I was always of the mind they knew of them. Just because we didn’t meet them before doesn’t mean the Federation didn’t...

 

[Henoch]

The Tholian lighting environment could be in the ultraviolet spectrum based on the groovy blacklight fluorescent lighting effects. Humans light their environment with the visible light spectrum, so, there are probably aliens that see better in other light spectrums such as the ultraviolet or even the infrared. If the Tholians have a crystal-based culture, then they could have developed their environment that is fluorescent under UV light, too. Their architecture could be very geometric or crystal structural in appearance. This is a lot of extrapolation based on one scene, though.

 

[Marsden]

The Tholian lighting environment could be in the ultraviolet spectrum based on the groovy blacklight fluorescent lighting effects. Humans light their environment with the visible light spectrum, so, there are probably aliens that see better in other light spectrums such as the ultraviolet or even the infrared. If the Tholians have a crystal-based culture, then they could have developed their environment that is fluorescent under UV light, too. Their architecture could be very geometric or crystal structural in appearance. This is a lot of extrapolation based on one scene, though.

I didn't understand any of that either, but any post that uses "groovy" in a non ironic way gets my like!

 

[Maurice]

The Starship Exeter fanfilm "The Tressaurian Intersection" features TOS style Tholians in a major way. They first pop up right about here (link).

 

[Spot261]

I rewatched "The Tholian Web" on H&I last night, and man... That title is really a misnomer, isn't it?

At no point is the Tholian Web the main problem our heroes have to deal with. They're much more concerned with the Defiant going in and out of the interphase, Enterprise crewmen periodically going mad, and the fact that Captain Kirk is missing and presumed dead. The Tholians are really just a device to keep the Enterprise in the immediate area while they're in danger of fading away, and at no point is there a whole lot of Tholian-ing or webbing going on. It makes our heroes look kind of dumb for helpfully staying in place while the Tholians sloooooooowly weave a web around them. And their escape from the web at the end of the episode is rather easy and perfunctory.

Heck, it's never even really clear if this the first encounter with the Tholians or not. The Enterprise is totally mystified by the Tholian web, which seems to be one of their go-to moves, but then Spock talks about "The renowned Tholian punctuality," as if Starfleet is familiar with them from previous encounters.

Really, I now think of this episode as something akin to "Journey to Babel." It's got so many different things going on that it never really develops any of its plot devices as fully as it should.

The Tholians and their web are the main things we remember from the episode because they're such striking visuals, but really, the episode should've been called "The Interphase Intrigue" or something.

I always wondered just how useful the Tholian Web could possibly be.

It seems to be designed for one very specific and contrived purpose, to immobilise starships which have already been immobilised and are taking no defensive action whatsoever.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I came here thinking someone else was surprised to see the Tholian ships were seemingly little one-man fighters. Nope

I found it amusing that Tholians from 100 years before (and admittedly an alternate universe) had a very different insta-web in "In a Mirror, Darkly". The ENT writers couldn't make the original sloooooooow version work plausibly against active ships.

 

[Marsden]

The Starship Exeter fanfilm "The Tressaurian Intersection" features TOS style Tholians in a major way. They first pop up right about here (link).

Thank you, Maurice, I've been wanting to watch those, I think I'll get started. Is that one of the ones you worked on?

 

[Ssosmcin]

I came here thinking someone else was surprised to see the Tholian ships were seemingly little one-man fighters. Nope

I found it amusing that Tholians from 100 years before (and admittedly an alternate universe) had a very different insta-web in "In a Mirror, Darkly". The ENT writers couldn't make the original sloooooooow version work plausibly against active ships.

You could justify it, and the later writers probably did, by assuming that Loskene’s ship was damaged in the fight and their ability to make the web was impaired. There was only one other small patrol ship nearby (maybe Loskene’s wingman) so the two of them did the best they could. Luckily for them, the Enterprise wasn’t about to budge. Loskene gambled on that by his brief conversation with Spock.

Also, there’s no reason to think that the web itself was created to be some kind of offense of weapon. It could strictly be a salvage mechanism, made for towing large craft. Only to be used once the other ship has been disabled, or is confirmed to be an empty hulk. Like a tractor beam, only prettier.

 

[J.T.B.]

It may have been a convenient device to put more ticking-clock stress on the crew, but I will say in the pre-CGI days the ships weaving the web was a very effective visual with some serious scale, and the return from commercial reveal of how much had been built was memorable. Even as I kid I wondered what the top and bottom of the web were like, though.

 

[Spot261]

It may have been a convenient device to put more ticking-clock stress on the crew, but I will say in the pre-CGI days the ships weaving the web was a very effective visual with some serious scale, and the return from commercial reveal of how much had been built was memorable. Even as I kid I wondered what the top and bottom of the web were like, though.

There is no top, there is no bottom. There is only....web.

 

[Henoch]

Compared to the Enterprise, the Tholian ships seemed fairly lame. Enterprise takes several shots before Spock responds with one phaser shot which seriously damages the Tholian vessel. Also, the Tholian sensors can't pick up the spatial interphase space phenomena. They suck, but they have balls to attack such a large opponent with such a small vessel.

When I saw this episode as a kid, I thought the Enterprise escaped though a small, unfinished hole in the web at the last second. I didn't understand then that when the Enterprise engaged full warp power, they actually disappeared into the spatial interphase and reappeared 2.72 parsecs away (~8.87 LY). That was surprising.

I wonder why they flip flop between the two units (parsecs vs. light years) in different episodes?

 

[Shawnster]

I always took it that the Federation knew about the Tholians and this was not a first encounter situation. I took Spock's comment about punctuality as factual.

The fan production Starship Exeter had a nice Tholian episode. http://www.starshipexeter.com/

 

[Spock's Barber]

It's still better than the title of the original spec script, which was called, "In Essence -- Nothing."

These days, that just makes me think of George Costanza...

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[Maurice]

Thank you, Maurice, I've been wanting to watch those, I think I'll get started. Is that one of the ones you worked on?

I was the Post Production Producer on the final act (which had languished for years) and they also generously gave me a story by credit because I provided some solutions to a couple of narrative issues.

 

[Maurice]

The Starship Exeter fanfilm "The Tressaurian Intersection" features TOS style Tholians in a major way. They first pop up right about here (link).

I always took it that the Federation knew about the Tholians and this was not a first encounter situation. I took Spock's comment about punctuality as factual.

The fan production Starship Exeter had a nice Tholian episode. http://www.starshipexeter.com/

Ninjaed!

 

[Redfern]

The Starship Exeter fanfilm "The Tressaurian Intersection" features TOS style Tholians in a major way. They first pop up right about here (link).

I LOVE the way your Tholians "take out" the Tressaurian fighters. It's so perfectly 1968 in its, ahem, "execution"! A Romulan influenced "plasma" blob expands to envelope the ship, which then turns into a glowing red silhouette that expands a bit with a hazy border, and then cleanly fades from existence. Similar to what was done individual victims, but scaled up.