I want to experience Batman and Superman

[AviTrek]

I'm curious, I've never read Birthright. Do they show Superman eating eggs or cows milk that you can say he is a vegetarian and not a vegan?

He specifically states that he is a vegetarian (and as I said, he wears leather, something a strict vegan wouldn't do). This is because his senses allow him to perceive the energies given off by a living being (a concept first proposed by Elliott S! Maggin in his classic Superman novels), and the sight of dead beings feels wrong and empty to him.

And I don't understand why some people react negatively to that idea. I mean, he's Superman. He's the embodiment of reverence for life. And it's an established trope that his sensory abilities are practically limitless. It seems logical that those would be connected, that he'd value life so highly because he can perceive it -- and its loss -- on a far more profound and intimate level than humans can. And it seems logical that someone with that kind of perception, and that kind of connection to life, would be a vegetarian.

Leather is as much of an issue for a vegetarian as a vegan. You can probably find vegetarians and vegans who don't wear leather and vegetarians and vegans who do. The names only referring to eating.

 

[Christopher]

^No, strict veganism is a lifestyle that eschews the use of animal products in any form. It's more extensive than just a vegan diet. All the more reason why it's incorrect to use "vegetarian" and "vegan" interchangeably.

 

[Myasishchev]

I don't know about any dogma, but while I'm not a vegan, I wouldn't buy leather or bone products. Nor would I use cartridges greased with the fat of cows or pigs.

 

[Broccoli]

I suddenly want a bacon cheese burger.

Anyway, Birthright was a bit underwhelming for me. I think the main reason the story didn't work for me was the art. I hated the artwork. And with a visual medium like comics, the art can make or break a story.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I suddenly want a bacon cheese burger.

Anyway, Birthright was a bit underwhelming for me. I think the main reason the story didn't work for me was the art. I hated the artwork. And with a visual medium like comics, the art can make or break a story.

Many a mediocre story has been saved by great art. The opposite is rarely true.

 

[Broccoli]

^ Well, it was true for me.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the art in Birthright. But art is generally secondary to me in a comic book unless it's really great or really hideous.

 

[Samurai8472]

You can get the new "Superman: Origins" I've read up to 3. There are 6 issues planned and 4 have been released.

I've got batman:year one. Hope to see if that can hook me. I've flipped through a few pages and can see that "Batman Begins" was heavily influenced by it.

The ending and how Batman evaded the cops with the bats. I love the batmobile but a bit sad its not in there.

 

[Stevil2001]

I suddenly want a bacon cheese burger.

Anyway, Birthright was a bit underwhelming for me. I think the main reason the story didn't work for me was the art. I hated the artwork. And with a visual medium like comics, the art can make or break a story.

What, you don't like this?:

 

[Broccoli]

Sorry, I didn't like it. I don't mean to indicate that the artist isn't talented. He is good at what he does, but I just didn't like to see his work for the entire run of the series. His stuff, like Alex Ross, is better suited for covers as opposed to in-issue art, if that makes any sense.

 

[Stevil2001]

Should I have signed off with a ? I was agreeing with you. I mean, look at that picture!

 

[Broccoli]

I knew you were agreeing with me. I was just furthering my point of view.

 

[Stevil2001]

Ah, it was the "sorry" that threw me off. You have nothing to apologize to me for!

 

[Christopher]

After reading Waid's afterword in the Birthright trade paperback, I have a hypothesis about why it didn't catch on. Waid's goal was to create a version of Superman's origin that would theoretically be accessible to a new, more cynical generation of readers, one that didn't connect to Superman as an establishment symbol and needed a fresh take that made him more an outsider searching for identity. But the thing is, comics these days don't really have a new generation of readers. It's mainly just the same old generation of readers wanting the same stuff they grew up with. And so, apparently, an approach targeted at a new audience didn't really work for the audience that was actually reading the comics. Maybe.

Plus there's the art. I can see that being a turnoff for a lot of people.

 

[Broccoli]

They may not have a new generation of readers, but why should that stop comic publishers trying to get a new generation of readers? The main reasons we see the origins of several of the popular characters told again and again is partly to grab new readers. Whether it works, of course, is entirely another matter. On a side note, I wonder how well Secret Origin is doing.

 

[Stevil2001]

It's been doing decently well, finishing in the low 20s/high 30s on the Diamond ranking of sales figures each month so far.

 

[Christopher]

They may not have a new generation of readers, but why should that stop comic publishers trying to get a new generation of readers?

I never suggested that it should. Birthright was an attempt to do so, and I commend the attempt. I'm simply offering a hypothesis for why the attempt didn't succeed. I wasn't saying things "should" be the way they are; on the contrary, I regret that comics aren't succeeding at drawing in a new audience.

 

[Mysterion]

(a concept first proposed by Elliott S! Maggin in his classic Superman novels),

Haven't thought about those books in a long time. I think Last Son of Krypton and Miracle Monday are great Superman stories, and think they should be republished.

 

[Broccoli]

They may not have a new generation of readers, but why should that stop comic publishers trying to get a new generation of readers?

I never suggested that it should. Birthright was an attempt to do so, and I commend the attempt. I'm simply offering a hypothesis for why the attempt didn't succeed. I wasn't saying things "should" be the way they are; on the contrary, I regret that comics aren't succeeding at drawing in a new audience.

It was a rhetorical question spinning from your comment. Sorry if you took it another way.

 

[Dick Whitman]

But the thing is, comics these days don't really have a new generation of readers. It's mainly just the same old generation of readers wanting the same stuff they grew up with. And so, apparently, an approach targeted at a new audience didn't really work for the audience that was actually reading the comics. Maybe.

That's the odd thing about all the retcons and reboots. I normally would agree that stories need to be retold to survive. But as you said there is no new generation of readers. So this reinvention is more about collector mentality. Like fans who need to have every variation of packaging of the same action figure. Or like my brother, who needs to buy every new gadget that Apple Computer releases. Even if it basically does the same thing the last one did.