I think we just need to accept the fact that this is a full reboot.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by The Rock, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Whether it is a reboot or not isn't the deciding factor or even a factor at all in my want to watch the show. Tell me a good story and you've got me.
     
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The term "soft reboot" is a meaningless synonym for the word " sequel" and doesn't actually exist as its own separate thing, so "nope".
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Soft reboot is a real term you can find all over the place. That gives it meaning.

    If it is a synonym why does it matter so much?
     
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  4. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    He can’t admit he was wrong.
     
  5. MadeIndescribable

    MadeIndescribable Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not really. You wouldn't describe The Empire Strikes Back as a "soft reboot" of Star Wars.
     
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  6. Spider

    Spider Dirty Old Man Premium Member

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  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf in the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    Sure they do. It's pretty much how fiction works. Each piece of the story give the reader/viewer/listener more information. As that information is gathered what has happened before and even after makes more sense. It doesn't have to be linear though. You can start at the end and work backwards to discover how character X got into situation Y.

    Make up isn't part the storytelling. You don't need to address updating production techniques in the story. If Shatner gets a better hairpiece there doesn't need to need an arc explaining why Kirk's hair looks better. If they change the look of Spock's ears ( and they have) you don't need a special episode where Spock goes to a plastic surgeon. If they change the warp effect, you don't need a line of dialog about a new type of warp field being generated. If the phasers change color in a episode, you don't need bunch techobabble about wave frequencies to explain it. If a role is recast, you don't need to address why they look different.

    If it's used by the industry it does.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  8. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just to follow up with my earlier reply...

    They've got me.
     
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  9. slappy

    slappy Commodore Commodore

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    Welcome to Trek fandom. The most splintered fanbase in the history of fanbases. Where fans literally tear factions of the property they claim to love apart for not being true the inconsistent spirit of said property that never really existed.

    Oh boy.

    What does Star Trek feel like exactly?

    TNG didn't feel like TOS and ended up being great.

    Voyager felt like TNG. Enterprise felt like Voyager. They both felt like boring trash.

    I love this show because it doesn't feel like any of those. I'm personally tired of Star Trek feeling like other Star Trek products instead of something that's new. I think its fans have come to think of it as comfort food instead of being challenging and that's problematic to me.

    The last time they fans felt uncomfortable, they whined and complained, but we got DS9. I'll gladly take that over more comfort food.
     
  10. MadeIndescribable

    MadeIndescribable Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually I'm pretty sure that's Star Wars ever since Episode 1 came out...
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is how I "feel" about it too ;)

    Star Trek has established itself as doing the same thing over and over, until 09 came out and said, "Hey, we don't have to be just sheep anymore" (with due respect to Gary Larson). And, I feel like DSC, once it gets its "space legs" that it will set its own tone.
    They actually trade the title back and forth every four years, like the Olympics ;)

    I feel bad for JJ Abrams, really. He gets eviscerated by Star Trek fandom for changing too much and then equally torn apart by Star Wars fans. Guy can't win. I should send him a card.
     
  12. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    JJ gets paid. For two Star Wars films now. He's not feeling the pain.
     
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  13. Delaware123

    Delaware123 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Sigh... The make-up, costumes, set design are part of the storytelling. You can slap a can of paint on an old boat and call it a plane. Anyway, you've worn me down. I'm going to stop watching Discovery now until they figure things out... Maybe I'll come back in a few seasons. And if they don't figure it out, then we'll always have Paris.
     
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  14. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    They are never gonna make it look old or like a cheap fan film.
     
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  15. SheliakBob

    SheliakBob Commander Red Shirt

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    I think that it is a Reboot in spirit, at least. The success of the JJTrek movies has emboldened Hollywood types to ignore the types of things that previous productions would have been careful about. Don't like how Klingons look? Change them! Redesign everything that you want to redesign! Retcon anything that you want to put into the show, but shouldn't if canon mattered a whit to you. This is the creative staff breaking the chains of e-vile Fandom, which has held them to task for decades. I'm sure some folks are cheering that aspect. That's fine. I'm not interested in telling anyone what they should like. But as a looong time fan, as in I was there on the floor with gaping mouth when the first episode aired, I find the whole thing offensive like a middle-finger in the face, followed by some half-hearted attempt to pass it off as "Prime Universe"--even though it most assuredly is NOT!
     
  16. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    No one can list canon violations however. Changing the look of a 50 year old TV show to not look dated and cheap is not a canon violation
     
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  17. SheliakBob

    SheliakBob Commander Red Shirt

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    It's mostly little stuff that I've seen and more violation in spirit than letter. A Klingon ship with a cloaking device, long before even Romulans were known to have them. (don't get me started on that Enterprise stuff) A tribble. Cute, but if a starship captain had one on his freakin' desk, then don't you think they'd be in the Federation database (along with appropriate warnings)? Spock's out of nowhere adopted sister (to go with his out of nowhere half-brother). And the KLINGONS! [insert long rant with many cuss words here]. Ah, the total one eighty about how "Klingons" feel about their dead. etc.
    You can explain stuff away, if you really really want to make the effort, but that's not what the writers and the production staff give a damn about. It is...irritating.
    In general, I think that prequels are a lousy idea. But The Powers, they don't call me and ask my opinion about these things. "shrug"
     
  18. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    The little stuff is often not a violation but a gateway.
    1: Cloaking, we do not know when Romulans got them. But other races have had them, only two ships had them and the other Klingons looked shocked. We know when Romluans reveled them, but not when they got them. Nor do we know much about the deal between them and the klingons. You may have just seen who brokered it.
    2: Phlox had a tribble in 2151. Humans and starfleet have known about them for decades, Just not the crew of a single ship
    3: He had a surprise brother, and never told anyone who his parents where. I can list a dozen characters with surprise family. Its a well used trek trope
    4: Klingons in the past have used mummification, this was seen in SFS IIRC, it is just by TNG era that custom has fallen out of use and is archaic. You are looking at a cult of the old ways.

    The writers seem to know more trek lore than the folks being outraged over what they think are violations, but are not. The shear amount of Easter eggs are amazing.
     
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  19. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But that's not canon, only "personal canon." There are four Indy films (soon to be five) and no matter how much one or two of them blow or disappoint even the most angry fanboy can't erase them from existence. Canon is decided only by the studios and networks. Personal canon can be anything you want it to be, but remember that your canon may have an audience of one.

    I write Trek short stories, novellas and fan films. None of them as far as anybody in a position of authority in the franchise is concerned is canon. I make elements in my stories personal canon because they entertain me and I like inserting my creations into the wider Trek universe to more fully flesh it out.

    But at the end of the day canon is what CBS and Paramount say. Nobody else. Period.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  20. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    People said all the same things about TNG when it came out, and it's considered one of the best television series ever produced.

    I don't understand why fans like yourself get so personally offended by changes to a 50 year old franchise that almost permanently died because it was cannibalising itself. 90's trek killed itself because it had become boring, predictable and exhausted from Voyager and Enterprise recycling plots from the series that came before it. The franchise had become so creatively bankrupt that it couldn't sustain itself. By the time it started taking risks again in the 3rd season of Enterprise, it was already too late. The fanbase was done. As a result Enterprise was the first trek series to be cancelled since TOS and Nemesis killed the movie franchise. 90's trek became horrible television and compared to sci fi series that began to air towards the end, it was dull and dated.

    All star trek fans did towards the end of the franchises run was bitch about how horrible it was. In 2009 we got something new but people hated it because they didn't feel it was like the very thing they were bitching about 10 years previously. You're never going to have your unrealistic expectations met. The Original Series will not return in the way some fans want it to, Star Trek will not return in the way some people want it to. No one can predict after having just seen 3 episodes that this so called 'middle finger in the face' will never inhabit the true spirit of Star Trek (whatever that may be). The series needs to take creative risks, because otherwise the franchise will just stay dead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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