I really like Voyager

[AuntKate]

Then you didn't pay attention to the final words spoken and there meaning.

I don't consider a random quote from a book captable of suddenly erasing his guilt and resolving the situation.

Erasing, no but moving past it, yes.

As the quote said: "So starts the first day of a new life."

It was a new lesson & emotion we would have to learn to live with and encorporate into the rest of his life.

I think so, too. He did what he had to do. As a holographic program, that should be enough justification--but it isn't. He has, in a way, crossed a certain threshold in his programming so that he has developed the "gray area" that we "solids" have to deal with in our decision making. I suppose, in that way, it is a new beginning for him, a new life. He has learned that he will make choices and do what he thinks is the right thing, but then he has to live with the fallout, which is not as easy as it seems.

 

[exodus]

I don't consider a random quote from a book captable of suddenly erasing his guilt and resolving the situation.

Erasing, no but moving past it, yes.

As the quote said: "So starts the first day of a new life."

It was a new lesson & emotion we would have to learn to live with and encorporate into the rest of his life.

I think so, too. He did what he had to do. As a holographic program, that should be enough justification--but it isn't. He has, in a way, crossed a certain threshold in his programming so that he has developed the "gray area" that we "solids" have to deal with in our decision making. I suppose, in that way, it is a new beginning for him, a new life. He has learned that he will make choices and do what he thinks is the right thing, but then he has to live with the fallout, which is not as easy as it seems.

That's what I take way from it too.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

 

[The Borg Queen]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

What do you expect from a reset-button driven series?

 

[AuntKate]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

OMG. Imagine someone writing the end of an episode so that the viewer has to think about it in order to understand!

 

[exodus]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

OMG. Imagine someone writing the end of an episode so that the viewer has to think about it in order to understand!

Pshaw! What a sneaky thing to do!

 

[tyciol]

I don't post here much because I'm a TOS guy mainly. However, I've really come to like Voyager this past year.

TNG is boring and sterile and DS9 is like watching paint dry. Just wanted to lend my support to this forum and if anyone has particularly favorite episodes to watch, let me know and I'll look for them.

Thanks.

I wouldn't go so far as insulting those other shows, since I thought they were great, but I really enjoy Voyager too.

It definately was a more emotional series, and it had a lot of interesting and unique characters. TNG and DS9 had them too though. You have to realize that characters like the Doctor and Seven probably wouldn't have come about if not for Data, and how Data probably wouldn't have come about if not for Spock. There's sort of a lineage of character development patterns there.

 

[AuntKate]

You have to realize that characters like the Doctor and Seven probably wouldn't have come about if not for Data, and how Data probably wouldn't have come about if not for Spock. There's sort of a lineage of character development patterns there.

What an interesting comment. I agree that Spock's human/vulcan split helped make him an compelling character and fostered some of the other "composite" characters we saw later on--Data (because, unlike Spock, he wanted to be human), Troi (as a human/betazoid hybrid), and even Worf (as a Klingon raised by humans).

In Voyager, though, I think this inspiration sort of split in two directions, one holographic and the other not. I always saw Data as the "father" of the EMH, with tinges of Vic Fontaine from DS9 thrown in for good measure, and Spock more of an inspiration for B'Elanna, as the human/klingon hybrid, and Seven of Nine, as a human/borg hybrid.

I don't think it's an accident that these "mixed" characters are exceedingly popular. Their interior struggle with what it means to be human plays well to the audience. This makes them very easy to write for, resulting in a frequent focus on them in many episodes, sometimes to the detriment of other, less conflicted members of the cast.

The evolution of Starfleet characters!

 

[kimc]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

Actually I like the ending and it got me into reading Dante.

 

[exodus]

You have to realize that characters like the Doctor and Seven probably wouldn't have come about if not for Data, and how Data probably wouldn't have come about if not for Spock. There's sort of a lineage of character development patterns there.

What an interesting comment. I agree that Spock's human/vulcan split helped make him an compelling character and fostered some of the other "composite" characters we saw later on--Data (because, unlike Spock, he wanted to be human), Troi (as a human/betazoid hybrid), and even Worf (as a Klingon raised by humans).

In Voyager, though, I think this inspiration sort of split in two directions, one holographic and the other not. I always saw Data as the "father" of the EMH, with tinges of Vic Fontaine from DS9 thrown in for good measure, and Spock more of an inspiration for B'Elanna, as the human/klingon hybrid, and Seven of Nine, as a human/borg hybrid.

I don't think it's an accident that these "mixed" characters are exceedingly popular. Their interior struggle with what it means to be human plays well to the audience. This makes them very easy to write for, resulting in a frequent focus on them in many episodes, sometimes to the detriment of other, less conflicted members of the cast.

The evolution of Starfleet characters!

Well said and great follow up to tyciol's post.

I agree. These types of characters are a great way to see the pros & cons of the human condition. However, nobody ever mentions Odo. While he is very different than Spock, Data & the EMH, I wonder where he falls into this equation.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

It did't show a resoloution, it didn't even say "you know I'll never learn to live with it and maybe thats the way it's supposed to be" , just a hammy quote on the holodeck and it's never mentioned again?
It was a bad end to a good episode

OMG. Imagine someone writing the end of an episode so that the viewer has to think about it in order to understand!

Pshaw! What a sneaky thing to do!

er no
They kept it vauge enough so anyone could project their own ending onto it.
Thats lazy writing

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I don't post here much because I'm a TOS guy mainly. However, I've really come to like Voyager this past year.

TNG is boring and sterile and DS9 is like watching paint dry. Just wanted to lend my support to this forum and if anyone has particularly favorite episodes to watch, let me know and I'll look for them.

Thanks.

Well, obviously I don't agree with you in the slightest that DS9 is 'like watching paint dry'.

However, for what it's worth to you given my obvious difference in taste, some of my favorite episodes of VOY are (in no particular order past the first two entries):

Deadlock - kick-ass awesomeness
Death Wish - the best Q episode in VOY and one of the best in Trek
Dreadnought
Time and Again
Resolutions - Yeah, yeah...I'm a shipper. Sue me!
Year of Hell
Timeless
Shattered
Bride of Chaotica! - quite possibly the best holodeck-related episode in all of Trek
Equinox I & II - I wish all of VOY had been more like this episode
Meld
The Chute
Sacred Ground
Extreme Risk
Counterpoint
Day of Honor
Lineage
Warlord
Message in a Bottle
Unimatrix Zero I & II - not a popular choice, but I love this one


I also really like the whole Seska arc at the beginning of the show. That was very well done and includes several episodes not in the list above.

 

[kimc]

I also really like the whole Seska arc at the beginning of the show. That was very well done.

Seska is one villain you just have to love hating.

 

[AuntKate]

OMG. Imagine someone writing the end of an episode so that the viewer has to think about it in order to understand!

Pshaw! What a sneaky thing to do!

er no
They kept it vauge enough so anyone could project their own ending onto it.
Thats lazy writing

The EMH sits down and reads the following: 'In that book which is my memory, on the first page that is the chapter that is the day when I first met you, appear the words - Here begins a new life.'

Here begins a new life.

How is that vague?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I also really like the whole Seska arc at the beginning of the show. That was very well done.

Seska is one villain you just have to love hating.

Agreed. That was a wonderfully written set of episodes, and Martha Hackett did a bang-up job, IMO.

I'm a sucker for intrigue, and as intrigue goes, this arc was a VOY high-point.

 

[Lynx]

I also really like the whole Seska arc at the beginning of the show. That was very well done.

Seska is one villain you just have to love hating.

Here I totally agree. Seska was a great villain and I enjoyed the episodes when she and Culluh were involved. A beautiful team!

A bit sad that they killed her off.

 

[exodus]

Pshaw! What a sneaky thing to do!

er no
They kept it vauge enough so anyone could project their own ending onto it.
Thats lazy writing

The EMH sits down and reads the following: 'In that book which is my memory, on the first page that is the chapter that is the day when I first met you, appear the words - Here begins a new life.'

Here begins a new life.

How is that vague?

Not to mention this isn't the first show of any series, Trek or other wise that's done an open ended ending. An open-ended ending is a classic conclusion in many forms of literature several of which are acclaimed bodies of work. None of which are considered lazy writing but rather writing written for the "thinking man".


If it's not your prefered style of story telling, that's one thing but it's not a form of lazy writing. Some(myself included) don't like having every story or idea spoon fed to us. Imagination after all, is what creates these shows in the first place.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I also really like the whole Seska arc at the beginning of the show. That was very well done.

Seska is one villain you just have to love hating.

Agreed. That was a wonderfully written set of episodes, and Martha Hackett did a bang-up job, IMO.

I'm a sucker for intrigue, and as intrigue goes, this arc was a VOY high-point.

Sorry about the DS9 comment. I do need to give that another shot. I appreciate your thoughts here too.

 

[freak]

Welcome to the Voyager fan forum then,TheLonelySquire! I was a fan when it started on UPN a long time ago and have been a fan ever since. Today, I received Season 4 of the DVD set in the mail and am now watching Year of Hell Part II. I have forgotten how great this episode was..even though it never really happened in the end, it still was a very exciting episode for me. Do you have a favorite character yet?? Or do you like everyone?? Personally, I love the whole cast but if I did choose, it would be Chakotay. He's hotter than a two dollar pistol!!!! ! ! Anyway, Year of Hell was a good time episode. Time travelling eps of Voy really gave me a headache. But this one was really good. And Kurtwood Smith was good in it too..he played Annorax I think, if I'm not mistaken.

I have the Borg Collection and Time Travel Collection so I've seen YOH several times. I really liked it and Kurtwood has been a Trek favorite of mine since he played the Federation Prez in TUC.

Endgame was great and I'm looking forward to getting the seasons on dvd in the near future.

As far as a favorite character I'd have to say Tuvok. Tim Russ does an outstanding job with the character. I think they're all solid and I expect to develop better opinions on each of them as I work my way through the series.

Now, I have a TOS bathroom (very classy!) in my man cave. And while I would never change it out for Voyager, I'm really into this show.

WOW! That's really cool that you have a TOS bathroom. I would never have the guts or the $$ to do something like that to my house.
You're another Endgame fan huh? I did NOT like that episode at all. It ended too quickly with a lot of unanswered questions..and I got mad at the C/7 relationship thing(more of a J/C fan) more than anything. It wasn't HORRIBLE, but it wasn't a great ending to a series that I had loved for a long while either.

I happen to agree about Tuvok. At first I was like a BLACK VULCAN?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!??!!! Then I got to know the character and really liked him..Tim Russ did an excellent job as Tuvok..especially in the episode "Riddles" where Tuvok is involved in an accident and feels like he's no longer a vulcan anymore.

I heard the Borg Collection DVDs are pretty interesting to say the least. I think there's also the Time Travel collection as well. Wonder what those are like?

 

[exodus]

While Tuvok wasn't focused on enough, Tim Russ played the hell out of the character. I really enjoyed eps. like "Riddles" & "Meld" when Russ was allowed to break from character. You got to see what great range he had as well as recognizing the disappline he used to play Tuvok. I think one of the most endearing charactistics of Tuvok was his dry wit. I also liked that Tuvok was your typical snobbish Vulcan that looked down upon humans. He actually liked us.