I pose a serious question about today's television landscape

[Temis the Vorta]

Me personally? I hate Dexter. I hate how flawed our heroes are, how corrupt our role models have become. Sure, this may mirror real life. But that's not entertainment to me. Dark, crazy and immoral does not equal complex to me. People throw out the cure-all term "sophisticated", but most times it seems they don't really know what that means, it simply makes them feel better about what they're arguing and that word alone should end the debate, so it's thrown out there. "My show is more sophisticated, I don't know how, it just is, next topic."

From this statement, I strongly suspect you don't actually watch Dexter, do you?

Otherwise, you'd know that one point of the story is to argue that Dexter is actually more moral than many of the supposedly normal people around him. For one thing, Dexter actually thinks about morality, which hardly anyone in the show besides him ever does (or in real life for that matter.) The series asks whether striving for the normal good things in life, such as protecting his family, can result in horrible things happening, just as easily as if he were unredeemably bad? Dexter isn't amoral. He has his own morality. The series is a dissection of morality itself.

Why not name a few shows from that period that are as sophisticated as contemporary serial dramas? I'm curious to take a look at some of them.

I'd like to know what these amazing shows are, too. I know a few: The Honeymooners, The Twilight Zone, TOS, maybe some episodes of The Outer Limits. I've also heard that early seasons of Gunsmoke were quite good and not at all standard-Westerns-hokey. But none of those were serialized.

 

[RoJoHen]

Me personally? I hate Dexter. I hate how flawed our heroes are, how corrupt our role models have become. Sure, this may mirror real life. But that's not entertainment to me. Dark, crazy and immoral does not equal complex to me. People throw out the cure-all term "sophisticated", but most times it seems they don't really know what that means, it simply makes them feel better about what they're arguing and that word alone should end the debate, so it's thrown out there. "My show is more sophisticated, I don't know how, it just is, next topic."

From this statement, I strongly suspect you don't actually watch Dexter, do you?

Otherwise, you'd know that one point of the story is to argue that Dexter is actually more moral than many of the supposedly normal people around him. For one thing, Dexter actually thinks about morality, which hardly anyone in the show besides him ever does (or in real life for that matter.) The series asks whether striving for the normal good things in life, such as protecting his family, can result in horrible things happening, just as easily as if he were unredeemably bad? Dexter isn't amoral. He has his own morality. The series is a dissection of morality itself.

I stopped watching Dexter because I thought it was boring and predictable.

 

[Joeman]

I don't believe I've ever heard of this Dexter show you're talking about, and I'm a TV junkie.

 

[Snaploud]

I don't think live studio audiences are a problem. It's the laugh track that's a problem.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

From this statement, I strongly suspect you don't actually watch Dexter, do you?

I'll give you that you're mostly correct.
I watched the first episode, and knew it was a show not for me. I'm not a believer in "personal" morality. I think the rules are bigger than how we're able to bend and define them. We're human and we make mistakes, yes, but some things just go too far. Give me my black and white good and evil everytime and I'm entertained.

Now, for the record, tt wasn't a badly done show, by any means. I can't say "The show is stupid" or "What a crappy show", because there is quality behind it. But just like other shows I've tried to watch and just can't get behind (The Shield, Sopranos, etc) I just hated the main character and knew there was nothing I would ever like about him after seeing his first kill.

 

[Smiley]

I do like having the studio audience. It forces the actors to stay sharp and gives them instant feedback. Watching a show that was taped in front of a live audience is the next best thing to being there because you get their honest reactions. My favorite show with this style is I Love Lucy. Listen for Desi's very distinctive laugh when Lucy is hit by the pie in "The Audition."

 

[Magnum]

I consider myself a fan of classic TV.

It seems the original poster wanted to focus on sitcoms. I very much enjoyed watching old shows on Nick at Night back in the late 80s; Mr Ed, The Dick Van Dyke show, Mary Tyler Moore, etc. but the only "sitcom" to pass the test of time for me personally is "The Honeymooners". They have a spontaneity that never gets old for me despite the fact that relatively few episodes were made. Perhaps it had something to do with Jackie Gleason's dislike of excessive rehearsals.

Now I'm through with sitcoms. I've given a few a chance lately, but I can't stand them. The closest I'll get to a television comedy is a dramedy like Boston Legal.

Crossing into drama, I am definitely attached to shows of the distant past. Star Trek: TOS, TNG, DS9 are very well beloved by me, as well as Magnum P.I. . Perhaps it's my age showing, but I can't seem to get attached to any show that's lived in the 21st century. Monk, Psych, and NCIS stand out for me, but I doubt I'll feel very attached to them years down the road.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Ummm . . . no.

These statements represent about as indefensible a position as I've seen offered up in a while. I can only attribute it to the posters' ignorance of television drama pre-1965.

I'll let that pass, because it's obvious that you know next to nothing about television drama of the golden age (otherwise you could not possibly have made the statement "modern TV is more sophisticated."), and that's not really your fault since hardly any of that stuff gets aired nowadays. But it's sad that you really believe your statements.

These three quotes make up your entire contribution to this thread. If you have something to say, then fricking say it. Tell us what shows were awesome back then and why. Defend your position, man.

Agreed.

I've watched A LOT of TV. A LOT. From a lot of different periods. So, I'm not ignorant.

Disagree if you want, ToddPence, but don't call me ignorant because I disagree with your position.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Me personally? I hate Dexter. I hate how flawed our heroes are, how corrupt our role models have become. Sure, this may mirror real life. But that's not entertainment to me. Dark, crazy and immoral does not equal complex to me. People throw out the cure-all term "sophisticated", but most times it seems they don't really know what that means, it simply makes them feel better about what they're arguing and that word alone should end the debate, so it's thrown out there. "My show is more sophisticated, I don't know how, it just is, next topic."

From this statement, I strongly suspect you don't actually watch Dexter, do you?

Otherwise, you'd know that one point of the story is to argue that Dexter is actually more moral than many of the supposedly normal people around him. For one thing, Dexter actually thinks about morality, which hardly anyone in the show besides him ever does (or in real life for that matter.) The series asks whether striving for the normal good things in life, such as protecting his family, can result in horrible things happening, just as easily as if he were unredeemably bad? Dexter isn't amoral. He has his own morality. The series is a dissection of morality itself.

I stopped watching Dexter because I thought it was boring and predictable.

Now I know you don't watch Dexter.

Oh wait! There's a show called Dexter's Laboratory. That must be what you mean. Mystery solved!

I'm not a believer in "personal" morality.

Dexter's personal morality is more stringent than most people's society-derived morality (which is easy for them to get around when nobody's looking; for Dexter, that's not an option because there's no hiding from a personally-derived morality). But you would have had to stick with the show to get the point.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Ummm . . . no.

I'll let that pass, because it's obvious that you know next to nothing about television drama of the golden age (otherwise you could not possibly have made the statement "modern TV is more sophisticated."), and that's not really your fault since hardly any of that stuff gets aired nowadays. But it's sad that you really believe your statements.

These three quotes make up your entire contribution to this thread. If you have something to say, then fricking say it. Tell us what shows were awesome back then and why. Defend your position, man.

Agreed.

I've watched A LOT of TV. A LOT. From a lot of different periods. So, I'm not ignorant.

Disagree if you want, ToddPence, but don't call me ignorant because I disagree with your position.

You still haven't named any actual shows.

 

[john titor]

Todays TV is shit. We need more programs like the A Team, Knight Rider and TJ Hooker. Those were the shows when men were men and action happened.

 

[felixofgolden]

The original post only mentions American television. While every country has the ability to create bad television (King of Kensington!), you should expand your search for quality shows.
I'm hard pressed to think of any American network show that I currently watch except for Lost. Everyone has different tastes, and yeah today's television can really suck but there is such a variety of sources now, that you need to search out the good stuff.

Davinci's Inquest, The Bridge, Dexter, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Deadwood, QI, Peep Show, Black Books, IT Crowd, Life On Mars, Ashes to Ashes, Jeeves and Wooster, Fry and Laurie, Lovejoy, The Prisoner, Sandbaggers, Generation Kill. Are just a few of what I consider extremely entertaining, quality written, dramatic or comedic shows. Not one is on American network tv. That short list may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's just an example that there's tv beyond Fox and NBC.

Kings was an HBO style show that was tried out on a major network and failed. Too bad really, another season would have been nice.
Don't swallow the crap that is out there - ignore it, and find the good stuff. Whatever or wherever it may be.
Oh yeah, check out a show called Screenwipe as well.

 

[ToddPence]

Why not name a few shows from that period that are as sophisticated as contemporary serial dramas? I'm curious to take a look at some of them.

Very well. I'll list fifteen that leave today's TV in the dust as far as sophistication is concerned:

12 O'CLOCK HIGH
BEN CASEY
THE BREAKING POINT
BUS STOP
CHANNING
CHRYSLER THEATER WITH BOB HOPE
COMBAT
THE DEFENDERS
THE FUGITIVE
HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL
IT'S A MAN'S WORLD
MR. NOVAK
NAKED CITY
ROUTE 66
SLATTERY'S PEOPLE

 

[Training]

One problem I have with todays TV show is the fact I feel the writers don't respect me has a viewer. Putting a good looking woman in show with barely any acting skills or bad stories just makes me feel insulted. Not only are they objectifying women but they expect me to have to ignore the plot holes and let my penis do the thinking.

In fact it's not just tv shows actually. It's also films.

 

[Harvey]

In fact it's not just tv shows actually. It's also films.

I was about to say. Though television certainly has its fill of beautiful people who can't act.

 

[RoJoHen]

From this statement, I strongly suspect you don't actually watch Dexter, do you?

Otherwise, you'd know that one point of the story is to argue that Dexter is actually more moral than many of the supposedly normal people around him. For one thing, Dexter actually thinks about morality, which hardly anyone in the show besides him ever does (or in real life for that matter.) The series asks whether striving for the normal good things in life, such as protecting his family, can result in horrible things happening, just as easily as if he were unredeemably bad? Dexter isn't amoral. He has his own morality. The series is a dissection of morality itself.

I stopped watching Dexter because I thought it was boring and predictable.

Now I know you don't watch Dexter.

I got through the first 8 or so episodes, when there was the "big reveal" of the serial killer, and I was severely let down and annoyed because I had figured it out as soon as they introduced the doctor. He was on screen for about 5 minutes before I went, "Oh, he's the serial killer." His dialogue just made it painfully obvious (I felt like I was being beaten over the head with foreshadowing). At that point, I stopped watching.

 

[Training]

In fact it's not just tv shows actually. It's also films.

I was about to say. Though television certainly has its fill of beautiful people who can't act.

Yeah. I personally find it offensive that they think of me has some sort of an idiot that will take any crap has long as there is boobs involved. Sadly to many idiots are exactly like that. Even if they have access to the internet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In fact it's not just tv shows actually. It's also films.

I was about to say. Though television certainly has its fill of beautiful people who can't act.

Yeah. I personally find it offensive that they think of me has some sort of an idiot that will take any crap has long as there is boobs involved. Sadly to many idiots are exactly like that. Even if they have access to the internet.

I might be wrong, but a having a nice set of boobs has been a key ingredient of entertainment since forever. This is not a recent development.

Women and men short on talent and long on looks getting jobs in Hollywood? I'm SHOCKED!!!! Shocked I tell you!!!!

 

[Professor Zoom]

In fact it's not just tv shows actually. It's also films.

I was about to say. Though television certainly has its fill of beautiful people who can't act.

And always has.

 

[Training]

I was about to say. Though television certainly has its fill of beautiful people who can't act.

Yeah. I personally find it offensive that they think of me has some sort of an idiot that will take any crap has long as there is boobs involved. Sadly to many idiots are exactly like that. Even if they have access to the internet.

I might be wrong, but a having a nice set of boobs has been a key ingredient of entertainment since forever. This is not a recent development.

Women and men short on talent and long on looks getting jobs in Hollywood? I'm SHOCKED!!!! Shocked I tell you!!!!

The worst thing is that it SHOULD be shocking. But it's not. It's like having a random ethnic minority or female character in a group.