I officially began my journey through all Star Trek on October 9th...

[Griffeytrek]

"Enterprise" put an end to Trek as a place for SF and SF ideas. Maybe this was happening gradually over decades, but it reached its last stage here. Enterprise was a mainstream action-adventure show that just happened to take place on a space ship. They aimed for entertainment and conflict like other shows, and gave up on raising questions about technology, scientific discovery, etc... We're not offered new ways of seeing anything... it's more like, did we fill the time? Was there an exciting fight or argument?
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Despite how much fans like s4 for its continuity fetish, it's all written with dialogue that's just as dull as the other seasons. The talking is there just to get their continuity stuff to happen.
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Spoiler

We see an ancestor of Dr. Soong. At the end, he's in jail, and says to himself-- "Artificial intelligence... maybe that's the way to go..." or something like that. Not clever, groan-worthy actually, but it's continuity with Next Gen, so hooray, for no good reason. Note how utterly uninterested Spiner is in the line, as he says it....

As you said it was happening over decades. But in many ways the core problem was not a change or even a stagnation of the writing. It was that the very technology, science, and in many cases the questions being asked had in fact caught up to the shows. It had drifted from its traditional distant future sci-fi asking phillosophical questions in the abstract to really a more near future setting asking questions about things that are largely already here. Just think how much has changed in those 50 years. How much modern life now resembles those distant future abstracts. It dulls the impact of the stories.

Think of it this way. Jules Vernes stories are fantastic. A great fun read at any time. They hold up well as they are. But you could not write a new one today. It just wouldn't work. The context has changed. The world has changed. Instead of writing speculative phillosophical sci-if you would end up with quaint retro steampunk action adventure.

That's what is happening with Star Trek. It's able to blunt this a bit when it focuses on the characters. But that just swings it more into the action/drama column. And in many ways by sticking to past Trek tropes they have boxed themselves in going forward. I suspect that this is partly why they set Enterprise as a prequel. Because they were quite literally running out of future to go to. Reality was arriving faster than they could create the imaginary future.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Why do you hate the redshirts?

No wait... redshirts usually have plot relevance.
Never mind.

 

[1001001]

It doesn't truly hit you until the end, but Breaking the Ice's main plot seems to have been thought up solely for making the title seem witty with the Vulcan marriage subplot.

That's a new low But it was still kinda fun I guess, especially with the subplot and its ending (that of course being T'Pol having an affair with a slice of pie, duhhh). There was one scene of Archer replying to a class of fourth-graders back on Earth that me groan at how "filler-ey" it was. It also seemed blatantly stolen from an unused VOY script with the stereotypical Irish children names and the "we miss Earth" speech at the end of it.

BTW, Vulcans are assholes. Also BTW, I hate Mayweather and his complete lack of charisma or personality. Though I'm liking Doctor Phlox more and more as the episodes go on (even if he is a diet Neelix), so I guess that cancels out the complete negative that is Travis.

Phlox is definitely one of my favorite characters. He's so amused by humans...

 

[wayoung]

Phlox is entertaining and we'll developed however there are a couple episodes coming up that are going to make you hate him.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The thing with Mayweather is that they had a good concept on paper with the boomer angle, but the actor just didn't seem to be pulling it off...he played it too much like a green ensign who was in awe of everything when he was supposed to be the most space-experienced person on the ship.

There was one scene of Archer replying to a class of fourth-graders back on Earth that me groan at how "filler-ey" it was.

I recall liking that bit of business...it echoed the sorts of things that RL astronauts do, underscoring the fact that the crew were the first human explorers out there.

 

[Griffeytrek]

BTW, Vulcans are assholes. Also BTW, I hate Mayweather and his complete lack of charisma or personality. Though I'm liking Doctor Phlox more and more as the episodes go on (even if he is a diet Neelix), so I guess that cancels out the complete negative that is Travis.

I always think Phlox is what they wanted Neelix to be. An outside neutral alien observer of humanity as they explore. John Billingsley nails it perfectly. Quirky, strange, but rarely crossing that threshold of annoying that so dominated the Neelix character.

Great post.

Do you think this will affect DSC?

I think we already know how it will effect DSC. DSC will be a more modern type darker High drama serialized show. The questions asked will be more real world political than abstract phillosophical. It will be more House of Cards or Daredevil than TOS. It pretty much has to be. There isn't much "amazing future" stuff they can show us or explore that we don't already see on the horizon. The only thing they have left to explore is the characters themselves.

This is not to say this is a bad thing. NuBSG is a SciFi ship show. But they grounded it in a very real world slightly retro aesthetic. Everything felt real. Felt old. Felt even a touch outdated. It wasn't a show about exploring the unknown and the impossible. It was about exploring inward and discovering what actually was possible. What it takes to survive? What it costs? And it's wonderful for it. But it is about as far from Classic trek as you can get.

Phlox is entertaining and we'll developed however there are a couple episodes coming up that are going to make you hate him.

I think John Billingley(sp?) hated those episodes as well and has often said so. They fell into the same idiotic Prime Directive traps that Voyager was so famous for. Where somehow the Prime Directive morphed from being a set of rules and guidelines meant to minimize harm to others, to almost a religion in the TNG era. One that would (and often does) permit Genocide in order to not violate their holy writ. Enterprise gets particularly creepy about it as we see them worshiping at the altar of the Prime Directive, when the Prime Directive is not yet a thing.

 

[wayoung]

^ What he said.

 

[Idran]

There was one scene of Archer replying to a class of fourth-graders back on Earth that me groan at how "filler-ey" it was.

What? Really? I loved that scene, because it's one of the few times on Star Trek that we get an image of Starfleet as NASA rather than Starfleet as the Air Force in space, and gave a touch of home.

I think John Billingley(sp?) hated those episodes as well and has often said so. They fell into the same idiotic Prime Directive traps that Voyager was so famous for.

"Those episodes"? "Dear Doctor" is the only episode I can think of that this could describe; it's an awful episode, yeah, but it wasn't a regular thing. What other episodes are you thinking of where they did this?

Edit: No, I guess "The Communicator" could sort of fall into that bucket too, thinking on it. Another awful episode, that one; one of my bottom three, because the entire crew just acts disgustingly unethical in a general sense.

 

[UnknownSample]

I don't think ST tech has to be new and unfamiliar to pose interesting questions about it, to base episodes on. And it could be about aliens and their tech, or social system, etc.. The situation of Enterprise could not possibly have been immune to thoughtful SF just because we've seen better tech. We don't need to be surprised by the technology. There are unexplored ideas and questions to pose about the transporter, say, warp drive...

It just invalidates the very idea of further SF, not just Trek, to say we're so advanced now that extrapolating into the future is nearly useless. We're not even starting to catch up to those things that are basic to ST, like the transporter, phaser, warp drive... Anyway, SF authors have been imagining further into the future than ST for a century, often doing a very good job of it. We just work our imaginations harder.

 

[The Old Mixer]

This is not to say this is a bad thing. NuBSG is a SciFi ship show. But they grounded it in a very real world slightly retro aesthetic. Everything felt real. Felt old. Felt even a touch outdated. It wasn't a show about exploring the unknown and the impossible. It was about exploring inward and discovering what actually was possible. What it takes to survive? What it costs? And it's wonderful for it. But it is about as far from Classic trek as you can get.

BSG did explore some sci-fi concepts, though...it had at least a couple in its main premise and focused on those throughout the show. What it didn't do was "random, episodic sci-fi concept of the week".

 

[Griffeytrek]

I don't think ST tech has to be new and unfamiliar to pose interesting questions about it, to base episodes on. And it could be about aliens and their tech, or social system, etc.. The situation of Enterprise could not possibly have been immune to thoughtful SF just because we've seen better tech. We don't need to be surprised by the technology. There are unexplored ideas and questions to pose about the transporter, say, warp drive...

It just invalidates the very idea of further SF, not just Trek, to say we're so advanced now that extrapolating into the future is nearly useless. We're not even starting to catch up to those things that are basic to ST, like the transporter, phaser, warp drive... Anyway, SF authors have been imagining further into the future than ST for a century, often doing a very good job of it. We just work our imaginations harder.

I'm not saying that SciFi cannot continue to explore these things. Just that the world built for Star Trek becomes more constrained in doing so, do to limitations in it's world building and presentation. As I said it is more akin to Jules Verne, HG Wells or Edgar Rice Burroughs. All wrote SciFi. All remain great stories today. But you could not write a new story of their type or in their worlds as designed today. The context has shifted under them. (That was one of the many underlying problems with John Carter. )

 

[UnknownSample]

I'm not saying that SciFi cannot continue to explore these things. Just that the world built for Star Trek becomes more constrained in doing so, do to limitations in it's world building and presentation. As I said it is more akin to Jules Verne, HG Wells or Edgar Rice Burroughs. All wrote SciFi. All remain great stories today. But you could not write a new story of their type or in their worlds as designed today. The context has shifted under them. (That was one of the many underlying problems with John Carter. )

Yes, you said that. I don't see that the real world has shifted in any such way that would create such problems. ERB Mars stories were always fantasies from the start. I was surprised to find they had any ideas about possible technology, which they do, but I doubt ERB seriously thought any of it was possible. Anyway, Trek tech remains very far advanced compared to ours, still remains as a set of very distant possibilities. Trek holds up.

 

[wayoung]

Yes, you said that. I don't see that the real world has shifted in any such way that would create such problems. ERB Mars stories were always fantasies from the start. I was surprised to find they had any ideas about possible technology, which they do, but I doubt ERB seriously thought any of it was possible. Anyway, Trek tech remains very far advanced compared to ours, still remains as a set of very distant possibilities. Trek holds up.

The show may say that communicators have subspace connections and the computer is so much faster but c'mon, looking at how they're actually used we've went beyond Trek tech in so many ways.....

Communicators are outdone by flip phones from fifteen years ago that could text and access the Internet - not to mention modern smart phones. Computer displays aren't big CRT's. Siri, Google Assistant, and Cotana all run miles around the "ships computer". Data is held on big old floppy discs which, from the rate they are changed, carry a lot less data than a modern $20 micro USB. Videoconferencing has been here for awhile and everyone can do it from their phone - something not possible outside of a ship in the 23rd or 24th century according to Trek. The pads are less advanced than current tablets - they are massively huge and used only for reading /signing documents and in both the 23rd and 24th centuries they have no wifi networking - they have to switch pads everytime they want to see different info. LCARS from the 24th century looks ancient compared to modern UI's (which it is).

Etc etc etc.

Sci fi tech always dates the project quickly. It's not a knock against the makers, it's just the way it is.

 

[Forbin]

Think of the communicators as military radios, like SINCGARS, not like phones. Military radios still only do the one thing, but they do it very well. And like you said, communicators can communicate over interstellar distances.

 

[Idran]

they have to switch pads everytime they want to see different info.

Out of all of it, this is one of the silliest things to me. So many scenes with one character or another surrounded by PADDs to suggest being inundated with paperwork.

Think of the communicators as military radios, like SINCGARS, not like phones. Military radios still only do the one thing, but they do it very well. And like you said, communicators can communicate over interstellar distances.

Not without the ship they can't; they can't go much further than orbit on their own, that's why landing parties go out of contact when the ship leaves orbit. And you can do that today easily with a Ham radio to chat with the ISS. People do it all the time.

And you can get cellphones with military-grade encryption nowadays too; Obama was infamous for his high-security Blackberry, for example.

 

[UnknownSample]

Cell phones require cell phone towers. Communicators don't.
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About all the things people do on their phones now, think of it like the lack of TV in the 24th century. It's not that they don't know how to build TVs, but that they've come to use some restraint. That doesn't cover everything you said, of course.

 

[Forbin]

Not without the ship they can't; they can't go much further than orbit on their own...

In Mudd's Women, Mudd used a communicator to contact the mining colony, while the ship was still light years away.

And you can do that today easily with a Ham radio to chat with the ISS. People do it all the time.

A Ham radio? You mean a communications device that does just one thing, and doesn't have a screen, and apps, and internet, and...

 

[Idran]

In Mudd's Women, Mudd used a communicator to contact the mining colony, while the ship was still light years away.

Mudd's Women also had lithium crystals and Vulcanians.

In Mudd's Women, Mudd used a communicator to contact the mining colony, while the ship was still light years away.

A Ham radio? You mean a communications device that does just one thing, and doesn't have a screen, and apps, and internet, and...

Well, the ISS also has an IP phone and videoconferencing, but I wanted to avoid the "well it has a network" issue. Still, given a protocol, there's nothing preventing you from transmitting that over radio as well; look at our connection with Curiosity, that's video feed done over a radio connection.

About all the things people do on their phones now, think of it like the lack of TV in the 24th century. It's not that they don't know how to build TVs, but that they've come to use some restraint. That doesn't cover everything you said, of course.

That's how you interpreted that? I always took it as basically what's happening today: television in the traditional sense is declining as it becomes supplanted with new forms of media, what with the rise in streaming and whatnot. I mean, audiovisual entertainment still exists in the 24th century. And in a few decades, that accidental prediction could very likely come true as the role of television is filled by other multi-use devices just like the role of a lot of other single-use technologies are.

 

[Kor]

Think of the communicators as military radios, like SINCGARS, not like phones. Military radios still only do the one thing, but they do it very well. And like you said, communicators can communicate over interstellar distances.

Thank you! We keep comparing Trek tech with multi-purpose, buggy consumer technology, when we should be comparing it to specialized military tech. I certainly wouldn't trust my life with a smartphone in a tense tactical situation. I would hate to get eaten by space monsters because instagram or MSQRD or whatever new app of the week froze up my phone (again!) and I couldn't call the ship.

Kor

 

[wayoung]

Thank you! We keep comparing Trek tech with multi-purpose, buggy consumer technology, when we should be comparing it to specialized military technology. I certainly wouldn't trust my life with a smartphone in a tense tactical situation. I would hate to get eaten by space monsters because instagram or MSQRD or whatever new app of the week froze up my phone and I couldn't call the ship.

Kor

You're also posting 250 years "in the past". It seems unlikely that our buggy, consumer gear wouldn't be improved in that period to be suitable for a generalized services like Starfleet that does everything from supplies runs to scientific research to combat situations with the same equipment.