I love Star Trek: TNG!

[LMFAOschwarz]

But that's not what's on my television screen - I'm watching Bad Santa! The perfect movie, really; I'm damned if I can find anything wrong with it. Too many funny moments to single out as my favourite ...

I've never seen that movie...but you get points from me for simply not mentioning A Christmas Story. To me it's the movie equivalent of Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.

I swear, if I ever hear someone say anything about "poking your eye out with that thing" again, I'm going to blow my brains out!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

DS9 definitely aged better than TNG. The great episodes are still great but the mediocre to okay episodes are harder to watch than the mediocre to okay episodes of DS9.

If Sisko had dated a white woman the show would have faced criticism for whitewashing black characters and been accused of tokenism. If he'd dated an alien they would have focused on the race of the actress cast. The only way to win is if he'd dated an Arabic woman or something.

Well, since some Arabs are considered 'white' by some who want to put people in a box, there probably would have still been people losing sleep because a handsome black man is opposite a hypothetical non-black attractive actress.

I think if Sisko had dated an Asian, Arab, white female and he was allowed to be a strong character, there shouldn't have been any issue. (Again, no one made a big deal about Colm Meaney and Rosalind Chao getting together - but because of racial standards in America, and the thought by some that Asian women are 'white male property,' that's expected).

Shonda Rhimes, a black female, showed (or has shown) different types of relationships in her shows "Private Practice" and "Grey's Anatomy"...and possibly "Scandal" and "How to Get Away w/Murder." And, those shows are pretty popular and possibly more progressive in that sense than many of the Star Trek shows....

 

[2takesfrakes]

But that's not what's on my television screen - I'm watching Bad Santa! The perfect movie, really; I'm damned if I can find anything wrong with it. Too many funny moments to single out as my favourite ...

I've never seen that movie...but you get points from me for simply not mentioning A Christmas Story. To me it's the movie equivalent of Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.

I swear, if I ever hear someone say anything about "poking your eye out with that thing" again, I'm going to blow my brains out!

The Holidays are always going to hawk sappy, sentimental, corny rubbish, because that's what a lot of people want. They even have "marathons" of the shite. It's the same thing that made Thomas Kinkade prints so popular. People know it's crap, they don't care. They just ... want it, anyway. Bad Santa is counter all of that and does it in a way that's funny, sexy and entertaining ...

 

[Cyke101]

If Sisko had dated a white woman the show would have faced criticism for whitewashing black characters and been accused of tokenism. If he'd dated an alien they would have focused on the race of the actress cast. The only way to win is if he'd dated an Arabic woman or something.

I have to say, one of the things that renewed my appreciation for DS9 when I started rewatching it a decade ago was Avery Brooks saying he took on the role because of the steady and trusty Hollywood trope of black men leaving their kids. To intentionally subvert that harmful trope on a very public role. To me that opened up a whole new lens to watch DS9 (and to reexamine race study in Trek overall).

Of course, one could argue that Sisko did leave Jake after all in the finale, but I'd raise the point that, by then, after the war and after the real start to his journalistic career, Jake was a grown man by then, obviously with sincere and mutual love for his dad (which ended the entire series).

 

[RandyS]

DS9 definitely aged better than TNG. The great episodes are still great but the mediocre to okay episodes are harder to watch than the mediocre to okay episodes of DS9.

If Sisko had dated a white woman the show would have faced criticism for whitewashing black characters and been accused of tokenism. If he'd dated an alien they would have focused on the race of the actress cast. The only way to win is if he'd dated an Arabic woman or something.

Well, since some Arabs are considered 'white' by some who want to put people in a box, there probably would have still been people losing sleep because a handsome black man is opposite a hypothetical non-black attractive actress.

I think if Sisko had dated an Asian, Arab, white female and he was allowed to be a strong character, there shouldn't have been any issue. (Again, no one made a big deal about Colm Meaney and Rosalind Chao getting together - but because of racial standards in America, and the thought by some that Asian women are 'white male property,' that's expected).

It would never have happened. One of Avery Brooks' requests of the writers was that any romance Sisko had be with black women only.

It seemed to be very important to him.

 

[kkt]

I swear, if I ever hear someone say anything about "poking your eye out with that thing" again, I'm going to blow my brains out!

Dude, the line is "You'll shoot your eye out," not "You'll poke your eye out."

 

[Joel_Kirk]

DS9 definitely aged better than TNG. The great episodes are still great but the mediocre to okay episodes are harder to watch than the mediocre to okay episodes of DS9.

If Sisko had dated a white woman the show would have faced criticism for whitewashing black characters and been accused of tokenism. If he'd dated an alien they would have focused on the race of the actress cast. The only way to win is if he'd dated an Arabic woman or something.

Well, since some Arabs are considered 'white' by some who want to put people in a box, there probably would have still been people losing sleep because a handsome black man is opposite a hypothetical non-black attractive actress.

I think if Sisko had dated an Asian, Arab, white female and he was allowed to be a strong character, there shouldn't have been any issue. (Again, no one made a big deal about Colm Meaney and Rosalind Chao getting together - but because of racial standards in America, and the thought by some that Asian women are 'white male property,' that's expected).

It would never have happened. One of Avery Brooks' requests of the writers was that any romance Sisko had be with black women only.

It seemed to be very important to him.

Yeah, but that was for Avery Brooks. It shouldn't be held as doctrine for every black performer - specifically males - on Trek.

Black people aren't monolithic or of one hive mind...

I would probably request a blond half-Asian/half-white actress as my love interest for a hypothetical show - Trek or non-Trek. Doesn't mean't other black performers, male, should be regulated to do the same because they are black. Some may not care who their love interest is, some may try to make a point...as did Brooks with his role.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I swear, if I ever hear someone say anything about "poking your eye out with that thing" again, I'm going to blow my brains out!

Dude, the line is "You'll shoot your eye out," not "You'll poke your eye out."

I'm not responsible for peoples' mis-quotes.

 

[kkt]

This thread really highlights the differences between shows. In TOS, no characters had ongoing romantic relationships. One-episode stands, sometimes, but not continuing. In TNG, a few on-again, off-again relationships for a few characters, but most didn't, and they were subtle rather than a major part of the character's life in every episode. In DS9, almost every character had at least one ongoing romantic relationship, Quark being the exception.

 

[Cyke101]

This thread really highlights the differences between shows. In TOS, no characters had ongoing romantic relationships. One-episode stands, sometimes, but not continuing. In TNG, a few on-again, off-again relationships for a few characters, but most didn't, and they were subtle rather than a major part of the character's life in every episode. In DS9, almost every character had at least one ongoing romantic relationship, Quark being the exception.

I know the Worf/Troi pairing gets bashed around here, and no I'm not a fan of it. But in the larger scheme of things, I liked the concept of two major characters getting together romantically, only for it to not work out and they just end up as friends once again. TV at the time was full of "will they/won't they" tension that would needlessly drag on, or a drama would have a major falling out between the two characters, turning it into a soap opera. Not so here -- in reality, many times friends and colleagues date, find out it doesn't work, and then go back to their friendly status quo without much fuss.

Of course, seeing Worf and Troi actually make that statement instead of inferring it for the viewer would've been nice. In actuality, we saw it towards the end of the show, including the finale, and it was dropped only because no one bothered to follow it up in Generations. So it definitely could've been handled better.

 

[Makarov]

Troi / Riker wasn't really all that big of a thing in my opinion. Sure they drop hints here and there, but they were in the friend zone for most of the series, until they were suddenly getting married in the movies. To me it's very much a fantasy that two people would get back together after watching each other date other people for so long, or even still be attracted to each other. A nice fantasy, just seems slim chanced to ever happen in the real world.

Crusher/Picard is more interesting to me because they have a good reason for suppressing their interest in each other (Wesley's dad's death), granted it's not explored too often.

But I much prefer the TNG style of having relationships be at the background usually rather than the subject of too many episodes.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Their being "Imzadi" is what made all of those unlikely aspects work with the Riker & Troi "relationship." I know that Frakes, in particular, really pushed for them to be married in NEMESIS, but I was never sure if this was off his own bat, or if he was responding to opinions he picked up at STAR TREK Conventions? In any case, I've been subjected to some horrendous Best Man Speeches, before, but Picard's is the first I've come across where he was bragging on himself and his deeds, throughout! Ah, well. I guess that's John Logan, for you ...

 

[DWF]

Their being "Imzadi" is what made all of those unlikely aspects work with the Riker & Troi "relationship." I know that Frakes, in particular, really pushed for them to be married in NEMESIS, but I was never sure if this was off his own bat, or if he was responding to opinions he picked up at STAR TREK Conventions? In any case, I've been subjected to some horrendous Best Man Speeches, before, but Picard's is the first I've come across where he was bragging on himself and his deeds, throughout! Ah, well. I guess that's John Logan, for you ...

The Riker/Troi relationship was obviously based on the Decker/Ilia one from the Phase II plan. But it was IMO the right thing to do in marrying them off escpecially in what turned out to be TNG's final movie, the need to keep thme single and seperate no long existed.

 

[Orphalesion]

The Riker/Troi relationship was obviously based on the Decker/Ilia one from the Phase II plan. But it was IMO the right thing to do in marrying them off escpecially in what turned out to be TNG's final movie, the need to keep thme single and seperate no long existed.

I think any need to keep them single ended when "Best of Both Worlds" assured that Riker was going nowhere fast. With the "ambitious officer working towards being a starship captain" part removed from his character it would have given the writers the opportunity to explore Riker as a husband and family man.

Only, would it have caused some sort of conflict of interest Picard's First Officer and Counselor were married to each other?

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, but that was for Avery Brooks. It shouldn't be held as doctrine for every black performer - specifically males - on Trek.

Black people aren't monolithic or of one hive mind...

Well, to be fair, one of Mayweather's love interests was a white reporter during Enterprise. The name of the episode(s) escape me at the moment.

 

[tomalak301]

Yeah, but that was for Avery Brooks. It shouldn't be held as doctrine for every black performer - specifically males - on Trek.

Black people aren't monolithic or of one hive mind...

Well, to be fair, one of Mayweather's love interests was a white reporter during Enterprise. The name of the episode(s) escape me at the moment.

Wasn't that Demons and Terra Prime. She was a great love interest.

 

[RandyS]

Well, since some Arabs are considered 'white' by some who want to put people in a box, there probably would have still been people losing sleep because a handsome black man is opposite a hypothetical non-black attractive actress.

I think if Sisko had dated an Asian, Arab, white female and he was allowed to be a strong character, there shouldn't have been any issue. (Again, no one made a big deal about Colm Meaney and Rosalind Chao getting together - but because of racial standards in America, and the thought by some that Asian women are 'white male property,' that's expected).

It would never have happened. One of Avery Brooks' requests of the writers was that any romance Sisko had be with black women only.

It seemed to be very important to him.

Yeah, but that was for Avery Brooks. It shouldn't be held as doctrine for every black performer - specifically males - on Trek.

I never said it should. Just saying what he wanted for Sisko.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The Riker/Troi relationship was obviously based on the Decker/Ilia one from the Phase II plan. But it was IMO the right thing to do in marrying them off escpecially in what turned out to be TNG's final movie, the need to keep thme single and seperate no long existed.

I think any need to keep them single ended when "Best of Both Worlds" assured that Riker was going nowhere fast. With the "ambitious officer working towards being a starship captain" part removed from his character it would have given the writers the opportunity to explore Riker as a husband and family man.

Only, would it have caused some sort of conflict of interest Picard's First Officer and Counselor were married to each other?

I see no Conflict of Interest™ were Riker and Troi to marry during TNG's original run. However, I do see it sort of competing against the O'Brien character's claim to fame as being the sole married/family man on ENTERPRISE and now Miles' gimmick is gone. So, Dee and Will having an Open Relationship was probably best left alone, at that point ...

 

[DWF]

The Riker/Troi relationship was obviously based on the Decker/Ilia one from the Phase II plan. But it was IMO the right thing to do in marrying them off escpecially in what turned out to be TNG's final movie, the need to keep thme single and seperate no long existed.

I think any need to keep them single ended when "Best of Both Worlds" assured that Riker was going nowhere fast. With the "ambitious officer working towards being a starship captain" part removed from his character it would have given the writers the opportunity to explore Riker as a husband and family man.

Only, would it have caused some sort of conflict of interest Picard's First Officer and Counselor were married to each other?

Keeping Troi and Riker single allowed the writers to give them relationships, short TV styled relationships but relationships none the less.

 

[Ghrakh]

Especially the spinoffs, who were far more conservative than TOS, when you take into account the time each were made.

White master Kirk kissing slave token Uhura due to mind control. 4th interracial kiss on tv! Yeah, that's some seriously progressive crap right there.

Well, to be fair, one of Mayweather's love interests was a white reporter during Enterprise. The name of the episode(s) escape me at the moment.

Mayweather obviously was using some voodoo mind control. His people do that sort of thing you know.

_____________

LOL, this thread got seriously jacked.