I love Star Trek: TNG!

[Makarov]

I always looked up to Geordi as a kid - he was practically the smartest dude on the ship, had almost superhuman vision, and always decisive in command. It would have been nice if he overcame his girlfriend problems, but I was too young to notice that side of it. The little nod to Leah in All Good Things was a nice touch though.

None of the characters really overcame their relationship challenges though so Geordie isnt unique in that regard. Troi/riker was not until the movies, Picard never was able to keep a girlfriend, and Data never retried his dating program. They were all sort of static with their flaws.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

None of the characters really overcame their relationship challenges though so Geordie isnt unique in that regard. Troi/riker was not until the movies, Picard never was able to keep a girlfriend, and Data never retried his dating program. They were all sort of static with their flaws.

I disagree. We saw Riker in various relationships during the show, Troi was in various relationships during the show, Data had a woman strongly interested in him (portrayed by Michelle Scarabelli) which he didn't act on, and Picard was seen in various relationships (e.g. the officer he slept with during Q's flashback in 'Tapestry'...another favored by Picard romantically whom he couldn't send on away missions because he feared for her safety...and Anij from the movie "Insurrection"). Even a minor characters, Miles O'Brien and Nurse Ogawa, were able to have a relationships.

Geordi, on the other hand, was written as one who couldn't get anyone of the opposite sex interested in him save an alien woman who was visibly portrayed by a black woman, showing the show's agenda for having characters visibly portrayed by black or African Americans, having to 'stick to their own kind'. (Even throughout that episode - 'Aquiel' - when he finally had mutual attraction, Geordi was always interrupted when he and the girl would have a moment). He - Geordi - was written as a neutered black man. One who was good at taking orders, but horrible at having a life of his own....even a sexual/romantic one.

And yeah....Geordie was easily the most neglected character in TNG after the 1st season. Still in universe, despite his blindness, he was able to make his way (at least professionally) and become chief engineer of the Federation's flagship. Not a bad feat for anybody.

For me, that's the single thing that is interesting thing about his character after the 1st season: His promotion to Chief. Unfortunately, he wasn't much beyond that.

 

[RandyS]

Just as Uhura and Geordi served as positive role models for young black and disabled people, so could such a character work as a positive role model for young gay people. I know I would have had an easier time accepting what am with at least one of those around.

Maybe nuUhura is a tough lady now in the new films, even though she still primarily serves as a purpose for Spock to do something...but she was just a lovely, glorified 'phone operator' then. With Geordi, he did have potential in the first season, but was bland, sexless, weak in later seasons (i.e. not much of a role-model I would look up to, just because he's black).

Well, being white guy, I focused more on Geordi being "disabled", but I agree with you. He was hardly a role model in that area either.

 

[Trek Survivor]

TNG is, and always will be, definitive Trek for me. My favourite Trek, and one of my fave TV shows of all time.

 

[suarezguy]

I loved TNG growing up (with it in reruns), now I still like it, and love parts of it, but notice and am more bothered by the flaws (occasionally too much preachiness, technobabble, discontinuity).

 

[Makarov]

Geordi, on the other hand, was written as one who couldn't get anyone of the opposite sex interested in him save an alien woman who was visibly portrayed by a black woman, showing the show's agenda for having characters visibly portrayed by black or African Americans, having to 'stick to their own kind'.

I definitely don't get that impression from the show at all. Geordi had two episodes revolving around romance with a white chick, and implied that he married her in All Good Things. Alexander's mom was portrayed by a white woman. Guinan is mentioned to be attracted to bald men such as Picard. Then you have Troi and Worf having a romance as well, and probably some that I'm forgetting.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Geordi, on the other hand, was written as one who couldn't get anyone of the opposite sex interested in him save an alien woman who was visibly portrayed by a black woman, showing the show's agenda for having characters visibly portrayed by black or African Americans, having to 'stick to their own kind'.

I definitely don't get that impression from the show at all. Geordi had two episodes revolving around romance with a white chick, and implied that he married her in All Good Things. Alexander's mom was portrayed by a white woman. Guinan is mentioned to be attracted to bald men such as Picard. Then you have Troi and Worf having a romance as well, and probably some that I'm forgetting.

Yeah, it was an 'implication' with Geordi and Leah. We never saw it since it was a figment of a timeline that may or may not have happened.

Alexander's mom was portrayed by a white chick in makeup, and Alexander's dad was portrayed by a black dude in heavy make-up that made him look like a cross between a turtle and a dog. I've came across comments that stated that some never knew that Worf was portrayed by a black man, and I would understand that).

Guinan is mentioned to be attracted to bald men like Picard. However, bald men can come in different races. (Bald men are not just white! Last I checked, there is another prominent Trek captain who was eventually bald). And, we never saw Picard and Guinan 'kiss' or have an onscreen romance. Just talk of attraction from Guinan.

In regards to Worf and Troi. Worf is a Klingon. I was never aware that Klingon's were designated as 'black' or 'white' or 'Asian.' And, that would be silly to do so since they're, well, aliens.

As aforementioned, Michael Dorn was in heavy make-up which made him look like dog with a turtle forehead. Now, would they have had him - Dorn - in a passionate onscreen romance with Marina Sirtis (and eventually Terry Ferrell) if he didn't have the make-up? I think not.

The Berman era definitely had the 'stick to your own kind' with black performers (unless they were in heavy make-up) going on. This sort of unconscious - or conscious - racism was also in regards to only seeing 'interracial' human interactions with white males/Asian females (e.g. Miles O'Brien and Keiko, Nurse Ogawa and her onscreen lover). Not too mention, you would never see an Asian female with a non-white guy.

 

[Trek Survivor]

As aforementioned, Michael Dorn was in heavy make-up which made him look like dog with a turtle forehead. Now, would they have had him - Dorn - in a passionate onscreen romance with Marina Sirtis (and eventually Terry Ferrell) if he didn't have the make-up? I think not.

Whaaa? I completely disagree. In the fiction of the show, no, Worf was not 'black' - but he is clearly a black actor, and there is no 'racism' afoot here.

 

[Ghrakh]

I'm finding this all rather tedious.

 

[bbjeg]

I certainly didn't get any racist vibes from the show.

 

[Makarov]

I consider Leah a successful romance in Booby Trap at least - it's no different than Will Riker's romance with Minuet. It ends with them making out. Galaxy's Child has more to do with the holodeck vs. reality conflict more than anything else, and also the standard "have to wrap up the romance by the end of the episode" thing. Granted one more episode where they get together would have been nice.

The Berman era definitely had the 'stick to your own kind' with black performers (unless they were in heavy make-up) going on. This sort of unconscious - or conscious - racism was also in regards to only seeing 'interracial' human interactions with white males/Asian females

To expand on the 90's trek - Voyager had Harry Kim with a white girlfriend back home, Tuvok had a white chick obsessed with him in an episode (possibly more than one if I remember correctly). Granted Tuvok is an alien and the woman was an alien, but there was minimal makeup. If anything I get the feeling they were going out of their way mix up the races in couples.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I consider Leah a successful romance in Booby Trap at least - it's no different than Will Riker's romance with Minuet. It ends with them making out. Galaxy's Child has more to do with the holodeck vs. reality conflict more than anything else, and also the standard "have to wrap up the romance by the end of the episode" thing. Granted one more episode where they get together would have been nice.

The Berman era definitely had the 'stick to your own kind' with black performers (unless they were in heavy make-up) going on. This sort of unconscious - or conscious - racism was also in regards to only seeing 'interracial' human interactions with white males/Asian females

To expand on the 90's trek - Voyager had Harry Kim with a white girlfriend back home, Tuvok had a white chick obsessed with him in an episode (possibly more than one if I remember correctly). Granted Tuvok is an alien and the woman was an alien, but there was minimal makeup. If anything I get the feeling they were going out of their way mix up the races in couples.

Again true - but Harry, from my recollection, was always questioning himself. Never sure of his relationships. Even at one point, when Seven is coming on to him, he backs away in fright.

With Tuvok: While we have Lori Petty's onscreen character interested in him, they already had him bound to his wife so we didn't see any romance there.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Geordi, on the other hand, was written as one who couldn't get anyone of the opposite sex interested in him save an alien woman who was visibly portrayed by a black woman, showing the show's agenda for having characters visibly portrayed by black or African Americans, having to 'stick to their own kind'.

Julie Warner's Christie Henshaw. White woman. Geordi has a date with her in "Booby Trap" that doesn't go very well, but then wins her over in "Transfigurations" with his confidence boost. It didn't continue, but at least it fit your criteria of "interest" and goes against the notion that only "the same kind" of people can be attracted to each other in Trek (the Worf/Troi denial is a huge stretch, but whatever floats your boat).

If the actress didn't leave for movies (real world situations do effect stories on the show), who knows where that might have gone.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Geordi, on the other hand, was written as one who couldn't get anyone of the opposite sex interested in him save an alien woman who was visibly portrayed by a black woman, showing the show's agenda for having characters visibly portrayed by black or African Americans, having to 'stick to their own kind'.

Julie Warner's Christie Henshaw. White woman. Geordi has a date with her in "Booby Trap" that doesn't go very well, but then wins her over in "Transfigurations" with his confidence boost. It didn't continue, but at least it fit your criteria of "interest" and goes against the notion that only "the same kind" of people can be attracted to each other in Trek (the Worf/Troi denial is a huge stretch, but whatever floats your boat).

If the actress didn't leave for movies (real world situations do effect stories on the show), who knows where that might have gone.

I disagree with the Worf/Troi dynamic since black men aren't Klingons with huge turtle heads. And black performers - particularly black men - shouldn't have to be under heavy makeup to have onscreen relationships in "Star Trek" or any other show opposite non-black individuals (e.g. Asian women, white females, non-white Latinas/Hispanics, etc....) Too, as I mentioned in other posts, there are some who didn't think that Michael Dorn was 'black' under all that makeup.

There were no modifications on Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes, Wil Wheaton or any of the ladies - Marina Sirtis or Gates McFadden...save for one of the main actors. They were allowed to be 'human'...or at least look 'normal.' (I do believe Sirtis had contacts for her eyes to signify her Betazoid heritage, but that's pretty minor).

I remember when DS9 was just coming on the air, I was wondering what prosthetic or 'handicap' they were going to give Sisko since the Berman-era just needed to 'modify' a black male actor in some way to make an unconscious or conscious statement.

With all that said, I saw the episode - 'Transfigurations' - a few years back. However, I may revisit it soon.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

There were no modifications on Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes, Wil Wheaton or any of the ladies - Marina Sirtis or Gates McFadden...save for one of the main actors. They were allowed to be 'human'...or at least look 'normal.' (I do believe Sirtis had contacts for her eyes to signify her Betazoid heritage, but that's pretty minor).

lol, they were human! I don't get your point. The aliens looked alien and the humans looked human? And when they hired a black captain, you (half jokingly) thought they'd have to modify him based on their history with which other humans exactly? (And Geordi was human. Disabled or not, if you claim otherwise, then your issues are ALSO with people that need assistive aids to help them with their every day lives. Something Levar had the option to leave behind in season 2 but WANTED to keep)

It's an alien/not alien thing. Not a racial thing. That part is all on you.

 

[BillJ]

It's an alien/not alien thing. Not a racial thing. That part is all on you.

Maybe, maybe not. They didn't have a great track record of mixing human characters of different colors in romantic relationships.

But I don't know if it was intentional or just the by-product of having a mostly white cast in all of the shows.

As celebrated as TOS was for the Kirk/Uhura kiss, it seems like they could've played up that angle more in the spinoffs to show that the 24th century had become truly integrated in all aspects of life.

The spinoffs were very conservative from a social evolution point of view. Very little human mixed race romance and a complete lack of gay people.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

There were no modifications on Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes, Wil Wheaton or any of the ladies - Marina Sirtis or Gates McFadden...save for one of the main actors. They were allowed to be 'human'...or at least look 'normal.' (I do believe Sirtis had contacts for her eyes to signify her Betazoid heritage, but that's pretty minor).

lol, they were human! I don't get your point. The aliens looked alien and the humans looked human? And when they hired a black captain, you (half jokingly) thought they'd have to modify him based on their history with which other humans exactly? (And Geordi was human. Disabled or not, if you claim otherwise, then your issues are ALSO with people that need assistive aids to help them with their every day lives. Something Levar had the option to leave behind in season 2 but WANTED to keep)

It's an alien/not alien thing. Not a racial thing. That part is all on you.

It's never a racial thing when a person of color brings up racial disparity.

(That's primarily an American thing).

There is a video somewhere on Youtube where a black person is giving his opinions on why Star Trek (probably focusing on TNG) is racist. And, from what I understand the white Trek fans didn't like that.

And yes, when DS9 came on the air, I wondered: "Oh, God are they have him with a prosthetic arm? A lost eye? One leg?" Thank goodness they actually had Avery Brooks as he was (save for the usual production make-up for actors in front of the camera) with 'all of his parts.'

And yes, you're correct. Worf is an 'alien' (not a 'black' alien or 'white' alien or 'Asian' alien, etc...) If it was Michael Dorn (sans make-up) opposite Marina Sirtis (sans make-up) then we might have something. However, the Berman-era was pretty poor when it came to interracial relationships where we saw 'black'(or dark-skinned) human characters opposite non-black human (or alien characters) that were visibly portrayed by non-black performers.

It's not just me, and it's not just Star Trek. American films and television have been like that for a long time. Although, Trek, with all it's 'we are the world' banter, should have been a bit more.

Too, whenever race is brought up by people of color, the usual answers are by people who do have skin privilege: "It's not about race" or "If you look for race, you'll find it anywhere" or some comment about the race card...etc...etc...etc. (And, given the current situation in America now, those sayings are even more common - particularly on online message boards).

It's an alien/not alien thing. Not a racial thing. That part is all on you.

Maybe, maybe not. They didn't have a great track record of mixing human characters of different colors in romantic relationships.

But I don't know if it was intentional or just the by-product of having a mostly white cast in all of the shows.

As celebrated as TOS was for the Kirk/Uhura kiss, it seems like they could've played up that angle more in the spinoffs to show that the 24th century had become truly integrated in all aspects of life.

The spinoffs were very conservative from a social evolution point of view. Very little human mixed race romance and a complete lack of gay people.

And even the Kirk/Uhura kiss was iffy since white American audiences completely ignored interracial kisses between white men and Asian women in Trek before the Kirk/Uhura kiss, and other in shows. (Yes, that is racist...because it's basically saying that there is nothing wrong with interracial relationships unless it involves a black individual). Not too mention the idea - probably due to media since WWII - that Asian women are somehow thought of as white male property.

It was (and still is) the question of 'Why focus on 'race' only when a black person is involved?'

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Well, to swing it back to the topic of why I love TNG, maybe in my youth I was naive to not notice race, but to notice what a great role model Geordi was as a disabled PERSON (something I was so happy to thank Mr. Burton for in person when I got the chance), as opposed to a disabled BLACK MAN. My second favourite character after Worf. Not dark skinned alien. But Worf.

It's only about race when it's brought up. When somebody tried to make an issue out of it. When it's not brought up, I simply see a smart, successful, friendly person that I looked up to and was inspired by. How can that be bad? How naive of me to not see how negative this show really was and the agenda Berman Trek was pushing at us. It's insidious. No wonder I hate so many people now because of what I learned from this show.

Now, getting away from the sarcasm:

I honestly believe if more people watched Star Trek, and shows with the positive messages of equality (whether you see it or not) and truly took them to heart, we wouldn't have half of the problems we're watching on the news right now. Because it goes against everything it at least tried to teach us. That we can be better than all of this.

 

[BillJ]

I honestly believe if more people watched Star Trek, and shows with the positive messages of equality (whether you see it or not) and truly took them to heart, we wouldn't have half of the problems we're watching on the news right now. Because it goes against everything it at least tried to teach us. That we can be better than all of this.

I think it's fair to question some of the finer points of the show. Especially when it is suppose to be about a time when everyone's equal. Why be against people asking these questions if you're convinced that the answer is what you think it is? The shows over 25 years old. Just like TOS, TNG will face questions about whether it was as progressive as Roddenberry and the fanbase like to project.

Though Star Trek has always gotten more credit for these aspects than it really deserves. Especially the spinoffs, who were far more conservative than TOS, when you take into account the time each were made.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I honestly believe if more people watched Star Trek, and shows with the positive messages of equality (whether you see it or not) and truly took them to heart, we wouldn't have half of the problems we're watching on the news right now. Because it goes against everything it at least tried to teach us. That we can be better than all of this.

The 'idea' was there, but the execution left much to be desired, IMHO. It's a show that attempts to speak to (and for) different demographics. And, when a show like Trek tries to speak 'for' a certain demographic or group (or not include a group or demographic)...you will have many who will question that.

To take your lead, I'm going to give what I like about TNG...even though I've had my problems with it:

1. It had men wearing a male version of the skirt/boots, even though it was discontinued after Season 1. And, I still want to rock it at a convention someday....

2. It continued the skirt/boots option for the ladies from TOS, even though it was discontinued after Season 1.

3. I like the Nebula class, and my character in STO - Star Trek Online - currently has that class (or that class mixed with the Megellan class) as her ship.

4. Tasha Yar.

5. Geordi LaForge in Season 1. Adventurous, took command like a trooper, and seemed like a character that would become a strong individual in later seasons.

6. The Ligonians in Season 1. Too bad we didn't get a deeper or extensive story about this culture since we only saw an extremely small part of that alien race. (We only get a passing comment in later seasons).

7. Deanna Troi in "Encounter at Farpoint." Although, I prefer her demeanor in "All Good Things..." since Sirtis was still getting into her character. The Sirtis version of Farpoint Troi in "All Good Things..." seemed more laid back and less melodramatic.

8. The episodes 'Booby Trap,''Parallels,''All Good Things...'

I honestly believe if more people watched Star Trek, and shows with the positive messages of equality (whether you see it or not) and truly took them to heart, we wouldn't have half of the problems we're watching on the news right now. Because it goes against everything it at least tried to teach us. That we can be better than all of this.

I think it's fair to question some of the finer points of the show. Especially when it is suppose to be about a time when everyone's equal. Why be against people asking these questions if you're convinced that the answer is what you think it is? The shows over 25 years old. Just like TOS, TNG will face questions about whether it was as progressive as Roddenberry and the fanbase like to project.

Though Star Trek has always gotten more credit for these aspects than it really deserves. Especially the spinoffs, who were far more conservative than TOS, when you take into account the time each were made.

Well said...