I Don't Get Neelix and Kes

[Albertese]

What's the deal here?

I watched Voyager off and on when it was on the air. I didn't love it. There were some good shows here and there, but it didn't grab me. But I'm giving it another try on Netflix and I'm pushing through all the episodes. I won't go into all my likes and dislikes so far. I get that this show has its fans and I assume I'm addressing them in this forum and I don't want to come across as overly negative.

But can someone explain to me what the hell is going on with Neelix and Kes? I'm currently watching "Elogium" and in it we learn that Kes is not yet two years old, and it seems clear that she and Neelix have never "mated" so use the verbiage in the show. Yet Neelix has obviously amorous feelings for her and she seems to reciprocate? Since this is a second season show, does this mean that Kes was just months old when the show starts? How old was she when Neelix first got to her? Should I be creeped out that he's fallen in love with essentially a baby girl?

If she has been away from her culture since basically her infancy, how does she know so much about her Ocampa stuff? How were she and her father so close?

And with everything we learn about Ocampa physiology and anatomy in this episode, are we to assume that Talaxians are also so anatomically weird that gluing the females hands to the male and getting pregnant in her back a normal procedure for them too? (Neelix seems surprised about the process so I doubt it.) I don't get this at all!

Please help.

--Alex

P.S. Just finished the episode and we learn that Ensign Wildman is pregnant. I seem to recall that her husband is an alien. But she just now realizes she's pregnant? After over a year on Voyager? Is it ever established that her alien's husband's species has an exceptionally long early stage to the pregnancy or are we to assume that the first season was only a month or so long rather than a year?

--AM

P.P.S. Okay the next episode "Non-Sequitur" says Harry Kim graduated eight months earlier. And there was a memorial for Voyager two months earlier. So does that mean that Season one lasted only about seven months? Still seems like a weird time table for Wildman's pregnancy. And Kes's lifespan.

 

[Tracy Trek]

The species that Kes belonged to (Ocampa) only live 9 years. Even though she is only between 1 or 2 years old in the start, that doesn't mean the same thing as a human being 1 or 2 years old.

 

[Albertese]

The species that Kes belonged to (Ocampa) only live 9 years. Even though she is only between 1 or 2 years old in the start, that doesn't mean the same thing as a human being 1 or 2 years old.

I get that much. It's the least of my problems.

--Alex

 

[Paradise City]

Neelix and Kes were already an item from before Caretaker. That has always been my reading of it anyway. It was one of the plot twists in the premiere episodes.

I was always indifferent to the pairing myself.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I've always suspected -- & honestly believe -- that Kes & Neelix are based on something else. They're referential of some work of literature, or probably a play, but I've no idea what. Obviously, though, it involves a trucker who picks up a girl. I'll try looking it up, later, to confirm my suspicions, maybe. It would certainly help to understand what audience their romance was intended for and aimed at.

Aside from the age difference, however you want to count it out, VOY seems to be going for a Beauty & the Beast vibe with Kes & Neelix. Visually, they nailed it, of course. Otherwise, this couple makes no sense, whatever. It's not even a Sugar Daddy/gold digger type of relationship. Honestly, it seems like they're Playing House, because he saved her Life, once ... He calls her "Sweeting" and she sticks around. That's about the extent of it.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I actually agree they are playing house and that is the extent of it. Sums it up nicely.

They obviously didn't have any kind of sexual relationship as Neelix didn't even know how Ocampans reproduce! And it's not like Kes was shy about science stuff, or an embarrassed person.

I think Neelix was very smitten with her and was waiting, waiting, waiting for a sign from her the relationship would become an adult one rather than the playing at one they had. He knew she was young and had been locked away underground and had been abused by the Kazon so he did not make any moves, he just waited and followed her lead.

The instant she attained enough growth to start thinking of MEN she dumped him. He was not a man to her, but a nice furry rescuer friend.

As to movies sadly for Neelix the dork gets the girl by the power of his own sweetness trope must have died out some centuries back.

 

[Sophie74656]

Season 1 is not a full year. In Cold Fire which is in season 2 it is said that they had been in the Delta Quadrant for 10 months. So at the time of Caretaker she was around a year old. At that point she had the physical appearance of a human who was 20ish. That just leaves the question of how long before Caretaker did Neelix meet her. It would have had to have been a very short time or she would have looked more like a child.

I agree that the word use in Elogium makes it sound like they hadn't actually mated, which I find incredibly unrealistic. I can buy warp drive, replicators, holodecks, aliens with vast mental abilities, but I cannot buy two people in a relationship and not having sex. I had just assumed that by "mating" they meant making a baby.

I personally always thought their relationship would have worked better if Neelix had met Kes when she looked more like a child and developed a father bond with her.

 

[Sophie74656]

I actually agree they are playing house and that is the extent of it. Sums it up nicely.

They obviously didn't have any kind of sexual relationship as Neelix didn't even know how Ocampans reproduce! And it's not like Kes was shy about science stuff, or an embarrassed person.

I think Neelix was very smitten with her and was waiting, waiting, waiting for a sign from her the relationship would become an adult one rather than the playing at one they had. He knew she was young and had been locked away underground and had been abused by the Kazon so he did not make any moves, he just waited and followed her lead.

The instant she attained enough growth to start thinking of MEN she dumped him. He was not a man to her, but a nice furry rescuer friend.

As to movies sadly for Neelix the dork gets the girl by the power of his own sweetness trope must have died out some centuries back.

They weren't even playing house...they had separate quarters.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Season 1 is not a full year. In Cold Fire which is in season 2 it is said that they had been in the Delta Quadrant for 10 months.

I guess that's why sometimes in a random episode they will say, "We've been in the DQ for such and such a time". But usually it's 1 year less than whatever season they are in. In Timeless, Janeway didn't say 5 years, it was something something like 4 years and 2 months wasn't it?

 

[Sophie74656]

I guess that's why sometimes in a random episode they will say, "We've been in the DQ for such and such a time". But usually it's 1 year less than whatever season they are in. In Timeless, Janeway didn't say 5 years, it was something something like 4 years and 2 months wasn't it?

Generally it's safe to say that a season is about a year. But the first season of Voyager is shorter than the others at only 12 (i think) episodes, where the rest have more than 20. so it was less than a year

 

[2takesfrakes]

I actually agree

...Téa! You amaze me! Bless your heart.

 

[psCargile]

Kes speaks likes she reciting porn, so I can see the allure there.

I cannot buy two people in a relationship and not having sex.

That's called marriage.

 

[Jedman67]

That's called marriage.

 

[Prax]

Season 1 also had about 5 or episodes that were cut off and saved for season 2 as the Network wanted Season 2 to start in August, I believe. The 37's, for instance, was filmed to be the season 1 finale.

For what it's worth, the way that best works for me to get into a new TV show, especially a Trek show on Netflix, is to watch a few random episodes from random seasons. You'll quickly become attached to the characters and accustomed to the tone. Then go back and watch in order from the beginning.

Although I had seen almost all of TNG as it aired when I was very young, and watched the first season or two of Voyager, now that it's been available streaming, I just went to memorable episodes first. I quickly got into the show, then went back and watched in order.
I did the same for DS9, Enterprise, TOS, and TNG. And I never watched more than one trek series at a time. They are each so tonally different.

I've even gotten immersed into serialized shows by skipping around, like Soprano's and Rome.

 

[Kor]

The relationship is alien.

It absolutely should seem absolutely bizarre to our human sensibilities. I wish Trek aliens actually tended to be more "alien" instead of just being exaggerated versions of human tendencies. Am I right, or what?

Kor

 

[Sophie74656]

The relationship is alien.

It absolutely should seem absolutely bizarre to our human sensibilities. I wish Trek aliens actually tended to be more "alien" instead of just being exaggerated versions of human tendencies. Am I right, or what?

Kor

Yes you have a point

 

[LJones41]

Is this because Kes looked like a beautiful, human-like alien and Neelix didn't? Or that they were two completely different aliens?

Besides, Kes was rather young when she first hooked up with Neelix. Within two years, she realized that she had outgrown him.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Making Neelix Voyager's court jester killed ANY potential for Kes ever wanting him the way he wanted her too. And it's true, she was too beautiful for him. But more than that, Kes had focus in her Life. She had a nice, little career going for herself, with a future in it. Whilst Neelix wore a hairnet in the mess hall, flipping burgers and annoying other department heads to help make him more relevant ... Tuvok ... Torres ... even The Good Captain, herself.

Neelix had every reason to want to be with Kes, but he didn't provide her with enough of a reason for staying with him. He wasn't a loser, per se, but he was lame ... and Kes wasn't so naïve that it would've been lost on her. But his bravery (or foolhardiness, if you prefer) deeply impressed her. He risked his life to save her from a black hole she had no way of getting out of.

And she saw his struggle ... his attempts to, if not better himself, to at least get out of his low station. He could be something of a 'Father Figure,' for those times when she really needed it. And he liked people, as evidenced by his title & duties as Morale Officer. But, to deserve a girl like Kes ... Neelix could never measure up. He was so close and yet ... so far. The story of his Life.

 

[Sophie74656]

That's the main reason I always found Neelix much more interesting after their breakup

 

[Lynx]

Making Neelix Voyager's court jester killed ANY potential for Kes ever wanting him the way he wanted her too. And it's true, she was too beautiful for him. But more than that, Kes had focus in her Life. She had a nice, little career going for herself, with a future in it. Whilst Neelix wore a hairnet in the mess hall, flipping burgers and annoying other department heads to help make him more relevant ... Tuvok ... Torres ... even The Good Captain, herself.

Neelix had every reason to want to be with Kes, but he didn't provide her with enough of a reason for staying with him. He wasn't a loser, per se, but he was lame ... and Kes wasn't so naïve that it would've been lost on her. But his bravery (or foolhardiness, if you prefer) deeply impressed her. He risked his life to save her from a black hole she had no way of getting out of.

And she saw his struggle ... his attempts to, if not better himself, to at least get out of his low station. He could be something of a 'Father Figure,' for those times when she really needed it. And he liked people, as evidenced by his title & duties as Morale Officer. But, to deserve a girl like Kes ... Neelix could never measure up. He was so close and yet ... so far. The story of his Life.

I think that the Neelix-Kes relationship started to crumble the days after they came on board Voyager.

kes settled in very quickly. She came up with the idea of growing their own food in the Hydroponics Bay, finding new friends among the crew, becoming the nurse in sickbay and spending most of the time with what she wanted to do which was exploring and learning.

Heelix on the other hand had more problems with that. He obviously faeared that he couldn't contribute the way her really wanted to and was afraid that Janeway would dump him on some planet along the way. Therefore he constantly came up with a lot of whims, like becoming the cook, Morale Officer, journalist and whatever. he was constantly pestering Janeway, Chakotay and Tuvok and even Torres with becoming part of the security team, engineering team or whatever.

What actually broke the relationship was Neelix's jealousy and possessive attitude towards Kes. She probably saw him as her Prince Charming who had saved him from the Kazon but gradually lost interest when Neelix became more and more manic about their relationship. Finally it had to break up.

However, Neelix was never mean or mistreating in any way, not intentional. He just became very difficult to have around. The same for all his whims which actually did annoy some senior officers from time to time, Tuvok the most.

I remember some comments in one of the books (I can't remember which one right now) when Tom Paris said about Neelix: "Why do his best never turn out to be what we expected from him" which may have some truth in it. In his eager to please, he over-did a lot of things which got the opposite effect. The tragic of his life.

I don't think he became much better in the 4-7 seasons when he was whimpering around Samantha and Naomi Wildman. It was another of his whims, they replaced Kes for him. I guess he had a thing for Samantha as well.

I guess that all of it was the result of his tragic background when he lost his beloved family during the war between Talaxia and Haakonia and therefore left Talaxia to travel among the stars.

But all of that makes Neelix a very interesting character. Really tragic and therefore likeable despite his flaws. The character actually has more depth and dimension that many viewers notice which makes him very interesting-and very likeable!