A few things to discuss about Kes

[Lynx]

What you need to know is that Wesley is one of the Travelers.

There you have it!

All in its absolute ugliness. This is exactly what I was writing about earlier, how writers of episodes and books are so s**t-scared of violating anything considered as "canon" so they won't dare to come up with a story which restores a destroyed character.

I guess you understand why I have no hopes of any appearances of Garak and Gowron in future books and why a Kes come-back only would lead to further destruction of the character.

Just cruise around the fandom a bit. People take a cruel delight at the notion of him being stuck at ensign forever. The only way to accommodate them is to ensure that his post-VOY fate is never revealed. Hence, the cancelation of his appearances in PIC and PRO, limiting LD to alternate versions of him (most of them ensigns), and changing that wall in SFA so his name wasn't on it anymore.

Actually the same problem here. No one dares to take the necessary step to restore Harry and make something useful out of it. instead they continue to ruin the character even more.

I must also state that I'm disgusted over how cruel people can be.

Some time after Mullibok was forcibly returned to Bajor, some representative from the Ministry of Agriculture appeared at his door at the dreary retirement home he was put in and left to rot. They had been made aware of his extraordinary farming skills, and asked if he would share his knowledge, that it might help them deal with the famine that was raging. Without a word, he slammed the door in their face.

I would have done the same thing.
I would also have told them where they could stuff their suggestions and where they could go.

 

[XCV330]

There you have it!

All in its absolute ugliness. This is exactly what I was writing about earlier, how writers of episodes and books are so s**t-scared of violating anything considered as "canon" so they won't dare to come up with a story which restores a destroyed character.

I guess you understand why I have no hopes of any appearances of Garak and Gowron in future books and why a Kes come-back only would lead to further destruction of the character.

Kes would make an outstanding near-god-level villain now, after Fury. Imagine Kes coming back and just rage-one-shotting a Borg Cube, or hunting down Neelix for perversely exploiting her young innocence and destroying him. They could retcon that she caused Romulus' star to go supernova as part of some larger overarching plan..

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

You can use someone else for that. This is not who Kes is.

What was done to Kes there is the same as what they did to Luke Skywalker in TLJ. And some people are defending that too.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

You can use someone else for that. This is not who Kes is.

What was done to Kes there is the same as what they did to Luke Skywalker in TLJ. And some people are defending that too.

Because it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal nor is it what people want but it makes sense from points of view on the character.

 

[XCV330]

You can use someone else for that. This is not who Kes is.

What was done to Kes there is the same as what they did to Luke Skywalker in TLJ. And some people are defending that too.

Fury Kes is the apotheosis of Kes.

 

[DonIago]

You can use someone else for that. This is not who Kes is.

What was done to Kes there is the same as what they did to Luke Skywalker in TLJ. And some people are defending that too.

...so...awesome?

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

I guess you understand why I have no hopes of any appearances of Garak and Gowron in future books and why a Kes come-back only would lead to further destruction of the character.

Kes would be problematic because of Jennifer Lien's IRL issues.

At least Garak wasn't killed in canon. And he was only disgraced in a non-canon book.

Actually the same problem here. No one dares to take the necessary step to restore Harry and make something useful out of it. instead they continue to ruin the character even more.

Not so much ruin as try to jerk off both sides.

I would have done the same thing.
I would also have told them where they could stuff their suggestions and where they could go.

Yeah, and it's in character for him, but it's still a very dark ending. Mullibok's in a position where he can embrace his life on Bajor, use his talents to alleviate his people's suffering... and instead he chooses to keep drowning in his bitterness.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Kes would be problematic because of Jennifer Lien's IRL issues.

Maybe in an animated series and have someonw with a similar voice voice her. Like nearly every time a charatcer from Star Wars movies appeared in animation.

 

[Set Harth]

It seems Seveb is the least weird of w9men he was attrqcted to.

You can say that again!

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

Harry's weird romances almost rates a topic in itself.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

least Garak wasn't killed in canon. And he was only disgraced in a non-canon book.

No less than he deserved but that's another topic.

Maybe in an animated series and have someonw with a similar voice voice her. Like nearly every time a charatcer from Star Wars movies appeared in animation.

Star Wars usually utilizes voice actors, Matthew Latner as Anakin, Sam Witwer as Maul and Palpatine, or Dee Bradley Baker for almost all the clones, or Steven Stanton as Obi-Wan, who also appeared in a fan film too.

Harry's weird romances almost rates a topic in itself.

Not sure which is worse the Garak or this one?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kes would be problematic because of Jennifer Lien's IRL issues.

At least Garak wasn't killed in canon. And he was only disgraced in a non-canon book.

Not so much ruin as try to jerk off both sides.

Yeah, and it's in character for him, but it's still a very dark ending. Mullibok's in a position where he can embrace his life on Bajor, use his talents to alleviate his people's suffering... and instead he chooses to keep drowning in his bitterness.

1. Jennifer, we want you back for one episode, but I'm sorry, we are going to have to insist that you are accompanied at all times by a sober companion, a life coach, and an emotional support animal of some kind.

2. Jennifer, we want you back for one episode, but I'm sorry, we are going to have to insist that you pay a 15 thousand dollar bond to make sure that you don't make any kind of fracas that grinds production to a stand still.

3. Jennifer, we want you back for one episode, but I'm sorry, we are going to have to insist that we put you in a hamster ball for the duration of your performance. We're either going to edit it out later with clever camera tricks, or write the Hamster ball into the episode.

4. Jennifer, we want you back for one episode, but I'm sorry, we are going to have to insist that you really wig out as much as possible to scare that cast into shitting their pants during filming, because we believe that that will make for some really good television.

5. Jennifer, we want you back for one episode, but I'm sorry, we are going to have to insist that you spend a lot of time in Avery Brook's trailer getting super high, so that you chill out and all the other cast members we trust to act like adults don't have to hide from you.

 

[Lynx]

Kes would make an outstanding near-god-level villain now, after Fury. Imagine Kes coming back and just rage-one-shotting a Borg Cube, or hunting down Neelix for perversely exploiting her young innocence and destroying him. They could retcon that she caused Romulus' star to go supernova as part of some larger overarching plan..

This is downright crap and you know it. This is so far from the real Kes you can come.
If you want silly super-villains, then you can read a Superman comic.

You can use someone else for that. This is not who Kes is.

What was done to Kes there is the same as what they did to Luke Skywalker in TLJ. And some people are defending that too.

True.

Unfortunately, a lot of people of today are mean and very destructive.
Probably a siggn of the dystopian times we live in.

Because it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal nor is it what people want but it makes sense from points of view on the character.

No it doesn't. it's downrigt crap and you know it.
Just like that episode in season six of VOY was downright insulting crap too.

Fury Kes is the apotheosis of Kes.

The witch in that episode has nothing to do with Kes.

Kes would be problematic because of Jennifer Lien's IRL issues.

I know that and i'm not expecting to see her back in an acting role. In fact, that's the reason why i don't want to see Kes return in some future series or movie. Since my three only possible options for replacing Lien are no longer active atresses and I don't want to see any dystopian 2020s half-witted Melissa Bigtyrelips making some sort of attempt to play kes, I've given up on possible returns in series or movies.

But some decent writer woyld have the guts to bring back the character in a decent way in some book.

But i guess that the only thing which would be achieved is that the character would be even more destroyed.

At least Garak wasn't killed in canon. And he was only disgraced in a non-canon book.

It's the same with Garak.

I had hope for that character when some books about Cardassia where he was a main character were released but...........

Not so much ruin as try to jerk off both sides.

It's actually quite destructive.
Not to mentione downright stupid that no one dare to change it.

Yeah, and it's in character for him, but it's still a very dark ending. Mullibok's in a position where he can embrace his life on Bajor, use his talents to alleviate his people's suffering... and instead he chooses to keep drowning in his bitterness.

I actually have sympathies for Mullibok here since what once was my childhood home "disappeared" in a similar way.

I never visit that place now and I would never want to have any contact with those authorities who caused the situation. Not to mention that I would never help them either.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

it doesn't. it's downrigt crap and you know it.

No, I don't know it. I don't agree. Period.

 

[XCV330]

This is downright crap and you know it. This is so far from the real Kes you can come.
If you want silly super-villains, then you can read a Superman comic.

Not at all. If anything, you can see Kes as a character as something of a larva who really didn't become who she truly was meant to be. Is a maggot very much like a housefly? Not really. They made her alien, which, oddly enough, she is.

The witch in that episode has nothing to do with Kes.

Not at all. See above. I actually think the lack of any kind of transition is part of the alien appeal. Try being a little open minded to your tv crush.

 

[DonIago]

I can't say the Kes as depicted in "Fury" was something I or perhaps most viewers wanted to see, and if I was a writer on the series it's probably not the direction I would have gone with the character, but the ending of the episode clearly establishes that the character wasn't "destroyed", necessarily, and as some posters here have pointed out, there are reasons why the Kes we knew might have swung in this direction. Among them being that she was an alien that we had no baseline for, and the precedent of Suspiria's followers makes it clear that there are definitely Ocampa out there, older than Kes, who aren't such nice people.

Again, not saying it was a good writing choice or one I would have pursued myself, but it's not completely without foundation either, and the idea that a character must always remain the kind of person they are first established as is antithetical to the notion of any meaningful character development and/or growth.