Being in the title helps.
I don't care I am loving season 3
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
- Start date
You ain't whistling Dixie.
I'm up the third season in my re-watch! "That Hope Is You, Part I". I love the mysteriousness of the 32nd Century, the vistas, and the instant chemistry between Burnham and Book.
Season 3 is when Discovery becomes watchable. The absolutely insidious focus on Burnham continues to drag the show down, and they pretty epically botched the landing in the resolution of the season.
But there is a decent amount of good in Season 3. I could honestly be interested in an entire show focusing on Couriers doing things prior to Discovery showing up in the Post-Burn "Space Apocalypse" galaxy.
I would love to explore the Emerald Chain more.
Season 3 highlights one of Discovery's greatest weaknesses. They DO come out with some interesting ideas, characters, etc... but it all takes a backseat and is largely glossed over for All Burnham, All The Time. It's relentless and tiring.
But there is a decent amount of good in Season 3. I could honestly be interested in an entire show focusing on Couriers doing things prior to Discovery showing up in the Post-Burn "Space Apocalypse" galaxy.
I would love to explore the Emerald Chain more.
Season 3 highlights one of Discovery's greatest weaknesses. They DO come out with some interesting ideas, characters, etc... but it all takes a backseat and is largely glossed over for All Burnham, All The Time. It's relentless and tiring.
It's terrible how the main character is the main focus...
I know. What happened to the days when being the lead character meant always taking a backseat and letting the minor characters who get billed during the end credits get all the attention?
What's that, things were never like that? You sure wouldn't know it the way everyone around here whines about Michael getting too much story material or Detmer not getting enough.
What's that, things were never like that? You sure wouldn't know it the way everyone around here whines about Michael getting too much story material or Detmer not getting enough.
This I agree with. At the very least it would make for a good TV Movie. Though what I really want is something that expands on "Calypso".
This I also agree with.
Interesting, because I just re-watched the first two seasons. So clearly I think it's watchable. And so do you if you watched it.
"Unwatchable" is you shut it off part-way through an episode because you can't watch it!
I started at the end of October. I would've been done faster if I wasn't trying to slow my re-watch down on purpose, so that I'll finish Season 4 right before Season 5 starts.
"That Hope Is You, Part I" --> I'd say it's split almost evenly between Burnham and Book. The last scene is 100% about the Federation, if you can call The Flag a "character".
"Far from Home" --> Burnham's in one scene at the very end. Barely.
"People of Earth" --> This is pure ensemble.
"Forget Me Not" --> This episode re-introduces the Trill and introduces Adira. I'd call this more of an Adira episode, if anything.
"Die Trying" --> Ensemble episode, but if there was a main character focus, I'd say it's Nahn.
"Scavengers" --> I'd call this a Burnham episode, with Georgiou helping her, and it's about rescuing Book.
"Unification III" --> Yes, I'd call it a Burnham episode. But she's also the one who's the foster-sister to Spock.
"The Sanctuary" --> I'd call this a Book episode.
"Terra Prime" Parts I and II --> Everyone knows this is a Georgiou two-parter. Come on.
"Su'kal" --> An ensemble episode.
"There Is a Tide" --> An ensemble episode. In fact, it's Vance who has to make the Big Decision here, when Osyraa's negotiating.
And finally...
"That Hope Is You, Part II" --> Burnham saves the day, but it's not a Burnham-centric episode. It's really about stopping Osyraa and the Emerald Chain. Everyone gets their moments to shine. Especially Book and Saru. "She's a queen!" anyone? And Saru talking down Su'Kal. I'd say Tilly too since this is when she finally realizes First Officer isn't for her and that she's in over her head (Saru never should've put her in that position to begin with, IMO). Then Burnham becomes Captain at the end for saving the day and she helps Vance to come out of his shell. Character development for everyone. That's hardly All Burnham All the Time.
By my count there are three episodes where you could say she's the main focus: "That Hope Is You, Part I", "Scavengers", and "Unification III".
"That Hope Is You, Part II" only creates the illusion that it's a Burnham episode because she stops Osyraa and gets promoted to Captain. But there's far more going on in that episode. There's a lot of moving pieces that get reduced, ignored, or forgotten about in the minds of people who have an axe to grind with Burnham. But, you know what? Let's include it anyway. Then it's four episodes. Out of 13. And in a series where she's billed as the Main Character. Hardly out of proportion.
If you wanted to make a case about how Voyager Season 4 was All Seven All the Time, then maybe you might have something. At least a stronger case than the one you want to have here.
By the way, to anyone who thought I might've lost a step after focusing so much on Picard... think again. I was just resting.
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I'm on "People of Earth". Great episode and I still think it was a masterstroke to have Earth no longer be part of the Federation.
The only black mark I give the episode is to the costumes the people from Titan are wearing to disguise themselves with. They look like they're from the '70s Battlestar Galactica.
Backtracking a bit, I think both "That Hope Is You, Part I" and "Far From Home" made great use of location shooting in Iceland.
"Far From Home" did an effective job of making Discovery feel like it landed in the middle of nowhere. It truly felt like they were lost, cut off from everything, and they were grounded in the unknown. Then Saru, Tilly, and later Georgiou walk straight into what really felt like Space Western. Making it look and feel like the Wild West drove home they were in an untamed land where the infrastructure Saru and Tilly were familiar with was gone.
The only black mark I give the episode is to the costumes the people from Titan are wearing to disguise themselves with. They look like they're from the '70s Battlestar Galactica.
Backtracking a bit, I think both "That Hope Is You, Part I" and "Far From Home" made great use of location shooting in Iceland.
"Far From Home" did an effective job of making Discovery feel like it landed in the middle of nowhere. It truly felt like they were lost, cut off from everything, and they were grounded in the unknown. Then Saru, Tilly, and later Georgiou walk straight into what really felt like Space Western. Making it look and feel like the Wild West drove home they were in an untamed land where the infrastructure Saru and Tilly were familiar with was gone.
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Something like this.
@eschaton
In "People of Earth", Saru uses the Sphere Data embedded in Discovery to learn about the Trill and deduces that even though Adira has all of Tal's memories, Adira has trouble accessing them because they're Human. I can accept this is a reason for Adira seems like a teenager instead of someone wise beyond their years. I just saw this right now and had to pause the episode to type this.
Someone could mention "The Host" from TNG and how Riker had access to Odan's memories, but there are two explanations for this: Early Installment Weirdness (as far as the Trill are concerned) or the memories of previous hosts can be made easily accessible to non-Trill hosts through the use of proper facilities, but Adira didn't have access to proper facilities and either couldn't or didn't try to find a way to be able to access those memories during the time leading up to "People of Earth".
Starting from the 41:25-mark.
Saru: Although Human, it appears young Adira has been joined with a Trill symbiont.
Burnham: Trill? I've seen Trill at the exchanges. I didn't know they carried symbionts.
Saru: According to the Sphere Data, the symbionts are a sentient lifeform, benevolent, and extremely long-lived. Once they are joined with a host, that host has the ability to access the memories of all former hosts.
Burnham: Including Admiral Tal's.
Saru: Yes. But it seems Adira has difficulty accessing those memories. Perhaps because she is Human and not Trill. Regardless, she may carry knowledge of what remains of Starfleet.
Burnham: I hope so.
In "People of Earth", Saru uses the Sphere Data embedded in Discovery to learn about the Trill and deduces that even though Adira has all of Tal's memories, Adira has trouble accessing them because they're Human. I can accept this is a reason for Adira seems like a teenager instead of someone wise beyond their years. I just saw this right now and had to pause the episode to type this.
Someone could mention "The Host" from TNG and how Riker had access to Odan's memories, but there are two explanations for this: Early Installment Weirdness (as far as the Trill are concerned) or the memories of previous hosts can be made easily accessible to non-Trill hosts through the use of proper facilities, but Adira didn't have access to proper facilities and either couldn't or didn't try to find a way to be able to access those memories during the time leading up to "People of Earth".
Starting from the 41:25-mark.
Saru: Although Human, it appears young Adira has been joined with a Trill symbiont.
Burnham: Trill? I've seen Trill at the exchanges. I didn't know they carried symbionts.
Saru: According to the Sphere Data, the symbionts are a sentient lifeform, benevolent, and extremely long-lived. Once they are joined with a host, that host has the ability to access the memories of all former hosts.
Burnham: Including Admiral Tal's.
Saru: Yes. But it seems Adira has difficulty accessing those memories. Perhaps because she is Human and not Trill. Regardless, she may carry knowledge of what remains of Starfleet.
Burnham: I hope so.
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It's terrible how the main character is the main focus...
2016 Producers: The show is about Burnham.
2024 fans: The show is about Burnham!
No kidding Sherlock.
I'm up to "Unification III". As people here know, while I still like the third season, it's my least favorite season of DSC, and this was my least favorite episode of it. So read these insights through that lens.
Anyway, Tilly being promoted to First Officer is more tolerable to watch now that I know how it ends.
Burnham versus the council of Ni'Var, I'll have to re-watch it one more time before continuing to the next episode. It was extremely late at night and I was getting tired. I want to see for sure how solid I think Burnham's case was, because they really did challenge her.
As far as Gabrielle Burnham being a Qiwot-Milot, my initial impression was, "What?!?!!" Then, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. Gabrielle was very candid with Michael in S2. The Qiwot-Milot are all about Absolute Candor. And having Gabrielle on Ni'Var maintains the Burnham family's connection with Vulcan. These were things I realized between my initial viewing and the viewing I did last night. So the parts with Gabrielle came off a lot better during the re-watch as well. Plus, as you know, I'm also a Picard Fan. So I enjoyed seeing the Qiwot-Milot being put to more use, both here and later on in Season 4.
Anyway, Tilly being promoted to First Officer is more tolerable to watch now that I know how it ends.
Burnham versus the council of Ni'Var, I'll have to re-watch it one more time before continuing to the next episode. It was extremely late at night and I was getting tired. I want to see for sure how solid I think Burnham's case was, because they really did challenge her.
As far as Gabrielle Burnham being a Qiwot-Milot, my initial impression was, "What?!?!!" Then, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. Gabrielle was very candid with Michael in S2. The Qiwot-Milot are all about Absolute Candor. And having Gabrielle on Ni'Var maintains the Burnham family's connection with Vulcan. These were things I realized between my initial viewing and the viewing I did last night. So the parts with Gabrielle came off a lot better during the re-watch as well. Plus, as you know, I'm also a Picard Fan. So I enjoyed seeing the Qiwot-Milot being put to more use, both here and later on in Season 4.
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agreed. They did start to turn the ship around, so to speak, in Season 4.
^ Following up on this bit up here, since I just gave the second half of "Unification III" a re-rewatch.
Gabrielle Burnham was right. Micheal Burnham was arguing her case to two audiences. No way could I see Burnham persuading that council. They were too tough of a crowd. BUT, I could see Burnham convincing T'Rina that giving Discovery the SV data was in Ni'Var's best interests. T'Rina wasn't going to stonewall Burnham. I also think T'Rina and Saru forming an instant bond probably helped as well, to make her more open-minded.
A piece of diplomacy as good as anything by Picard.
Finished with Season 3. It's all Season 4 from here-on-out.
Quick thoughts on the last three episodes of the season:
Gray wanting to be seen is an analogue for members of the LGBTQIA Community wanting to be seen.
Initially I wished we got to see more of Osyraa, and I still wish that, but it was the right move to cut right to Osyraa trying to "negotiate" with Vance. The Discovery crew may have just arrived in the 32nd Century, but these characters have lived there all their lives. Having this alluded to history that we haven't seen makes the 32nd Century feel more real.
Owo and her ability to hold her breath helps to save the day!
Osyraa gives up after Vance rejects her first offering of peace. Burnham doesn't give up in retaking Discovery. Moral of the story: Give up and you lose. Don't give up and you win.
The episode before, but you can just see Vance's reaction when he realizes Saru leaving Ensign Tilly in command of Discovery led to Osyraa's quick capturing of it. That irresponsibility had to have knocked Vance's opinion of Saru's judgement down just a little, which was probably another factor in him wanting Burnham to take command of Discovery. Had Burnham been in command, Osyraa wouldn't have been able to take the ship.
That having been said: Loved the banter between Tilly and Osyraa.
Rating the season:
"That Hope Is You, Part I" --> 9
"Far From Home" --> 8
"People of Earth" --> 10
"Forget Me Not" --> 8
"Die Trying" --> 8
"Scavengers" --> 7
"Unification III" --> 7
"The Sanctuary" --> 8
"Terra Firma, Part I" --> 9
"Terra Firma, Part II" --> 10
"Su'Kal" --> 8
"There Is a Tide" --> 8
"That Hope Is You, Part II" --> 8
Average: 8.3
Season Rankings:
S1 --> 8.7
S2 --> 8.3
S3 --> 8.3
Quick thoughts on the last three episodes of the season:
Gray wanting to be seen is an analogue for members of the LGBTQIA Community wanting to be seen.
Initially I wished we got to see more of Osyraa, and I still wish that, but it was the right move to cut right to Osyraa trying to "negotiate" with Vance. The Discovery crew may have just arrived in the 32nd Century, but these characters have lived there all their lives. Having this alluded to history that we haven't seen makes the 32nd Century feel more real.
Owo and her ability to hold her breath helps to save the day!
Osyraa gives up after Vance rejects her first offering of peace. Burnham doesn't give up in retaking Discovery. Moral of the story: Give up and you lose. Don't give up and you win.
The episode before, but you can just see Vance's reaction when he realizes Saru leaving Ensign Tilly in command of Discovery led to Osyraa's quick capturing of it. That irresponsibility had to have knocked Vance's opinion of Saru's judgement down just a little, which was probably another factor in him wanting Burnham to take command of Discovery. Had Burnham been in command, Osyraa wouldn't have been able to take the ship.
That having been said: Loved the banter between Tilly and Osyraa.
Rating the season:
"That Hope Is You, Part I" --> 9
"Far From Home" --> 8
"People of Earth" --> 10
"Forget Me Not" --> 8
"Die Trying" --> 8
"Scavengers" --> 7
"Unification III" --> 7
"The Sanctuary" --> 8
"Terra Firma, Part I" --> 9
"Terra Firma, Part II" --> 10
"Su'Kal" --> 8
"There Is a Tide" --> 8
"That Hope Is You, Part II" --> 8
Average: 8.3
Season Rankings:
S1 --> 8.7
S2 --> 8.3
S3 --> 8.3
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I decided to quantify these myself recently by episode but I misplaced the file (I've tidied up and I can't find anything!). I did find a summary though on a scratch sheet:
(1) 8.72
(2)9.00
(3)8.21
(4)9.00
The 2 9.0s were a total happenstace of ratings!
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