"I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge"

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by alpha_leonis, May 6, 2020.

  1. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    A paper printout????? I don't know; that's pretty bad. ;)
     
  2. Coronacopia

    Coronacopia Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's a pretty good way of looking at it.
     
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  3. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Despite that dumb line (which I also classify as "bonus material" to be easily ignored) and the racial/ethnic makeup of the crew (improved upon in WNMHGB), "The Cage" did make it clear that a female was "the ship's most experienced officer" who did in fact take command in the captain's absence. So it wasn't completely retrograde. The highest Starfleet position for a woman in TOS, about a dozen years ahead of the US Navy allowing women to be unrestricted line officers, about 20 years before a woman would become XO of a major vessel, and about 30 years before women could serve in combatant vessels.
     
  4. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In addition to it being removed in the version that actually got broadcast as the two-part Menagerie, eliminating it (in essence) from canon depending on one's view on the unbroadcast pilot, I'd argue the lines that are harder to justify is Kirk's reiterating of "female Yeoman" in The Corbomite Maneuver, and the infamous "world of starship captains doesn't admit women" from Turnabout Intruder, let alone the entire basis of the plots in episodes like Wolf In The Fold or Who Mourns For Adonis. The sexism in episodes like that made it to air, so I find a line of dialogue omited from The Menagerie anyway to be much easier to ignore. :)
     
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  5. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Per Pike's level of individual comfort as he's the conduit for the audience (that would not be used to women in command at that time) in that scene; behind the scenes the reason for #1 was more than just the myth:

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cage_(episode)
    But if her real name is "Una"... Seriously?! All those decades to find out an oh-so-important revelation about who Number One's real name was? Why not call her "Wahid", "Biri", "Bitta", "Yksi", etc... oh wait, same difference...
     
  6. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good Man. Now if everybody would hold that view, sanity might return.
     
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  7. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Its not that Pike doesn't think that women aren't capable to be officers, or that they shouldn't be on the bridge. It's about danger, especially with the loss of crewmembers still on his mind to the point he considered quitting. That's also why First Officer Una is different to him; he trusts her to protect herself in a dangerous situation. And the bridge is probably a dangerous area of the ship to be in.

    Its not something to get too worked up about. At worst, its just a dated bit of dialogue.
     
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  8. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would just say that Pike is uncomfortable about having a new Yeoman because he feels responsible for the death of the previous one,and explains it via sexism.
    When people are blocking the pavement, and speaking another language, I instinctively think that it's because they are foreign. Which is me being racist, grabbing at an obvious excuse. Ditto for Pike Sexism.
     
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  9. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    The remark was sort of backhand praise to Number One to imply that she's so good she's as good as a 'man' but also she's so unfeminine.
    To give it a non-sexist slant as much as I can. By random chance the bridge crew had been all men for a number of months except for Number One of course. When the deaths occurred on Rigel 7 there were promotions, shuffling etc and there were suddenly 3 women on the bridge.
    Why Pike needed to point it out seemed stupid but all of us make stupid remarks sometime.
     
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  10. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    An aside on the subject: I did a rewatch of Wild Wild West a few years ago, and just finished I Spy last week. In the very last scene of the very last ep of WWW, West and a friend are relaxing in his train car. He sends the random girl-of-the-week off to prepare some food, tips a glass to his friend, and mutters something about women belonging in the kitchen, wink wink. That's how the show went out. Conversely, the last ep if I Spy involved guest star Arlene Golonka as an agent that Kelly thought was an airheaded bimbo who would jinx the mission. As it happened, she was perfectly capable of doing her job and saved the mission, and won Kelly over. After they said goodbye, the last line of the series was Kelly saying "She's some kind of lady" and Scott agreeing.

    So two series on in the same era - one ended showing the hero treating a woman like chattel, the other ended teaching its star to respect a woman he'd stereotyped.
     
  11. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Like this quote:
    "Using print-out only, notify all decks to prepare for maximum acceleration"

    Certainly a line from the 60s.

    Other anachronisms - the smoking signs in TWOK

    And the "Do not flush in spacedock" sign from TFF. Are they really implying that brig waste gets ejected direct into space?


    Of course it is, they should stick it in the middle of the ship so it's highly shielded :D
     
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  12. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    even in 1989 people thought fax machines would be in every room in 2015 XD
     
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  13. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Multiple ones if I recall rightly
     
  14. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think the casting and the writing were probably the real reasons. "The Cage" is very, very dry, with none of the humor that TOS had, or the spark that Shatner brought to the Captain role, or the humor & warmth that DeForest Kelley brought to Dr. McCoy. Everyone carries themselves very seriously and doesn't display much in the way of personality. Jeffrey Hunter does a good job as Pike, but as his character is having a crisis of confidence and is on the verge of quitting, he's not the most appealing or relatable character, either. This Enterprise isn't really a ship you'd care to spend time on every week. But they ironed out those early problems and ended up with a classic television series.
    If there's a better way to fire Marty McFly for insider trading, I'd like to hear it. ;)
     
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  15. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Commander Red Shirt

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    I always though it would be interesting to accept TOS as sexist in universe and explain it in a prequel, and explain why things change afterward in a near sequel. I used to like to imagine some sort of demographic or economic catastrophe occurred which incidentally set women's rights back, like the Black Death or Great Depression. Or it was a long recovery from WWIII which only started getting better around TOS. Regardless it would be a neat way to learn about why societies become sexist and how they can change to be less sexist. Perhaps that's better for a couple Trek novels.
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    I'd just rather dismiss it as "One bad episode said it in an ambiguous way, and it was just the way some of the people who made the show thought," and leave it in the dustbin of history where it belongs.
     
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  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She took classes at the University of Northern Alabama prior to entering Starfleet Academy, and arrived on campus wearing a sweat shirt with U.N.A. on the front, and she wore the shirt from time to time while at the acadeny. And that's where the nickname of "Una" come from.

    Because there no way in fucking hell that's her actual name.
    No, of course not. It just that immediately after a ship arrives in spacedock the crew recieves shore leave and the crew will be getting ready to go. And the waste from the brig gets sprayed from a ceiling nozzle in the yeomans locker room and they would like to look nice for their leave.
    Yeah, except there is a body of evidence as to women's place in the TOS universe, and not just in one episode.
     
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  18. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Commander Red Shirt

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    There's enough of other stuff to show it's not something to take at face value. It's just an interesting thought experiment to wonder why they would be sexist, and just as interesting to counter it with what factors they have in place which make it ridiculous.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why?
     
  20. Coronacopia

    Coronacopia Fleet Admiral Admiral

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