Hypotheticals: what could have been done to improve Nemesis?

[Uxi]

Ditch the clone idea entirely. Ditch B4. Make the Remans the main bad guy. Rather than make Ent-E a wussy ship that gets knocked out of warp with one hit, and also ditching the mind rape crap, have the Scimitar Maul the Starfleet task force until a Romulan task force of D'dererx and the newer ships come and turn the tide.

I thought the idea that the Scimitar could even get to Earth was kind of absurd. I'd have instead liked to see the idea that the Scimitar was just going to trash/wipe out Romulus instead. That negates any need for a Starfleet task force and could even explain why there are only a few Romulan ships (if the budget/battle is going to be small).

 

[Captaindemotion]

I wanted the Romulans to be the primary antagonists and not play second fiddle. Ever since I saw that Romulan corpse in Generations I've been waiting for a Romulan movie. And with the Romulans playing a major role on TNG, I was hoping they would eventually get to be front and center in a TNG movie.

This is a strange one.

The disappointment people show with Romulans not being center stage is their own fault. We don't dictate how a script is written. And we can't get upset if our desires aren't met, as they're based on nothing anyways. Or else where does it end? "The movie sucked, I've been wanting Seven of Nine to have a starring role in these movies since she was on Voyager"? Which version of Fan Fiction should the writers be paying most attention to? It's really unfair to the movie AND the viewer.

What on earth is strange about being disappointed that a movie doesn't tell the sort of story you want?

Was it strange when people didn't like Batman and Robin because it was a campfest, when they hoped it would be more of a Dark Knight type story? Was it strange when people didn't like Transformers 2 because they wanted things like plot or character in it?

You may or may not agree with what DarKush wanted to see in Nemesis, but his complaint that it didn't feature a storyline he would have liked to see seems perfectly rational to me.

 

[DarKush]

^
Thanks Captaindemotion. Also DonIago and Horatio83. You all said it better than I probaby could. As for M'rk, what I find odd is that you would complain about what I said at all, particularly in a forum asking hypothetically what could have been done to improve Nemesis.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ You're very welcome.

I always found it odd that, given that the Romulans have always been since as the Federation's main enemy (apart from the Klingons), they've never really been featured as the big bad in a Trek movie, apart from '09. They were supposed to be the main villain in TSFS, but it was decided to go with the Klingons. This made sense, as they were the main enemy and no doubt it was felt audiences wanted to see what the new bumpy-headed Klingons they'd glanced at in TMP could do. But I really wanted to see a Rommie-centric movie at some stage during the franchise and would not have used them the way NEM did.

 

[Jeyl]

I know not many think fondly of Denise Crosby's screen presence, but I would have liked to have seen Sela play the antagonist in Nemesis. It would have brought some of TNG's greatest connected stories to a close. Depending on how Nemesis could have ended with Sela, you would know that this is something that should never have happened if "Yesterday's Enterprise" didn't occur. And if Nemesis was going to end really well due to Sela's involvement, it would have given those episodes from TNG much more meaning rather than being treated as episodes that can be forgotten (Like how they forgot Picard's artificial heart).

 

[DarKush]

^ You're very welcome.

I always found it odd that, given that the Romulans have always been since as the Federation's main enemy (apart from the Klingons), they've never really been featured as the big bad in a Trek movie, apart from '09. They were supposed to be the main villain in TSFS, but it was decided to go with the Klingons. This made sense, as they were the main enemy and no doubt it was felt audiences wanted to see what the new bumpy-headed Klingons they'd glanced at in TMP could do. But I really wanted to see a Rommie-centric movie at some stage during the franchise and would not have used them the way NEM did.

I'm in agreement. I would've loved to have seen the Romulans in a TOS movie, perhaps the best bet being Star Trek V. There was really no need to bring the Klingons back for that, and they're appearance, even though I liked Klaa and Vixis, especially in the novelization, felt tired.

But TNG had brought the Romulans back and had been consistent heavies throughout the show's run. I think they deserved a movie all to themselves and not have it hijacked by the out of the blue created Remans. I did like the Remans, but I wish they or Shinzon had not dominated the film.

 

[DarKush]

I know not many think fondly of Denise Crosby's screen presence, but I would have liked to have seen Sela play the antagonist in Nemesis. It would have brought some of TNG's greatest connected stories to a close. Depending on how Nemesis could have ended with Sela, you would know that this is something that should never have happened if "Yesterday's Enterprise" didn't occur. And if Nemesis was going to end really well due to Sela's involvement, it would have given those episodes from TNG much more meaning rather than being treated as episodes that can be forgotten (Like how they forgot Picard's artificial heart).

I agree with a lot of what you say here. For me, I can't fault Crosby. I think she did the best with what she was given, but Sela was a poorly conceived character. However I thought her appearance in Nemesis would've had more on an emotional impact. She was the Romulan that had the closest relationship to any of the crew. And it would've helped to sell the idea of the series ending by bringing back a lot of the original actors.

That being said, I probably would've used her as a reluctant ally more than the main antagonist. And maybe just created a rogue Romulan antagonist to go head to head with Picard.

 

[Jeyl]

That being said, I probably would've used her as a reluctant ally more than the main antagonist. And maybe just created a rogue Romulan antagonist to go head to head with Picard.

An Antagonist can be an ally. Some forget that antagonist by definition is a character who presents obstacles that the protagonist must overcome. For example, the protagonist in Back to the Future was not Marty, but his father George. It's Marty that gets George into shape and helps him become a better person by the end of the movie. As for a Star Trek example, who better than Q? He's probably the best antagonist in the whole franchise when he's trying to prove a point. The TNG episode Tapestry is a great example of a non-villain protagonist showing the protagonist something he must overcome.

That's why I said Sela should be an antagonist and not a villain.

 

[BillJ]

To this day, I can't get over the number of fans clamoring for Crosby to be in Nemesis as Sela. Weren't we tortured enough by her acting during the run of the series?

 

[Lt. LaForge]

I love Crosby, Yar and Sela.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I would have liked an appearance by Crosby/ Sela, even if only from the point-of-view of closure. It would have been nice to have had all of the original cast appear onscreen on the TNG crew's final outing (though IIRC, Will Wheaton's wedding cameo was cut anyway). But I don't think she's a strong enough actress to have been the big bad. A short appearance or supporting role would have been plenty.

 

[Jeyl]

To this day, I can't get over the number of fans clamoring for Crosby to be in Nemesis as Sela. Weren't we tortured enough by her acting during the run of the series?

Hmm. Choices....

Tasha Yar, or Wesley Crusher.

One was meant to be depicted as a tough and competent security officer on the flagship of the Federation. She died in the line of duty TWICE, with the last one restoring the time line and saving the Federation.

The other was just some gleefully innocent young boy who could just waltz around any part of the ship including engineering, and was allowed to man the ops station during an epidemic/hostage crises even though he had no starfleet or ship experience. He also secretly records Picard's voice from the intercom so he can pretend Picard is ordering him to take the Enterprise anywhere he pleases.....

Nemesis chose Wesley.

 

[BillJ]

Nemesis chose Wesley.

To be fair, Wesley was actually still alive.

Details are a bitch...

 

[Uxi]

Wondering what happened to Sela would have been worthy to address but I am glad she wasn't a main character. Having her as an assistant or perhaps one of Shinzon's victims would have been fine with me.

Best time for a Romulan movie arc would have been in place of Insurrection. They could have planned a decent duology, if not trilogy maybe introducing a Romulan villain in Generations (but having him peripheral to the main plot - maybe introduced at the station?), main movie in Insurrection and Nemesis dealing with the aftermath of the "win" in Insurrection (where it went from bad from worse and could have been Picard teaming up with his villain from Insurrection or dealing with an even worse enemy, perhaps that sheds a different perspective on Insurrection's bad guy).

That would have been worthy of the big screen instead of moar Spiner and Stewart. Nah they still would have dominated but would have been at least a bigger scope.

 

[CorporalClegg]

To be fair, Wheaton can actually act.

Details are a bitch...

FTFY

 

[BillJ]

To be fair, Wheaton can actually act.

Details are a bitch...

FTFY

 

[Lance]

Best time for a Romulan movie arc would have been in place of Insurrection. They could have planned a decent duology, if not trilogy maybe introducing a Romulan villain in Generations (but having him peripheral to the main plot - maybe introduced at the station?), main movie in Insurrection and Nemesis dealing with the aftermath of the "win" in Insurrection (where it went from bad from worse and could have been Picard teaming up with his villain from Insurrection or dealing with an even worse enemy, perhaps that sheds a different perspective on Insurrection's bad guy).

That would have been worthy of the big screen instead of moar Spiner and Stewart. Nah they still would have dominated but would have been at least a bigger scope.

The reason the Romulans were dropped as the villains of INSURRECTION was because Patrick Stewart insisted that having Romulans in the film was a "retrograde" step, a backwards step, and that he personally found the Romulans boring and thought they should be doing something different. It says a lot about how INSURRECTION was ultimately received that when they did NEMESIS and had Romulans in it, Stewart kept his mouth shut.

Personally, I wouldn't have had them in either GENERATIONS or FIRST CONTACT, but in retrospect I can see that having Romulans in INSURRECTION might have given them the opportunity to build a triology out of Trek IX, Trek X and Trek XI. Firstly by reintroducing Romulans in INS, then by building ties between them and the Federation in NEM, before finally blowing up Romulus in the 2009 film. The (implied) 24th century scenes from the 2009 film could have all been tied in much more effectively with the previous two movies, had there been a stronger 'Romulan arc' running through them all.

What we can only see in hindsight.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Had the TNG movies been financially successful, the 2009 movie would not have happened. They wouldn't have gone back to the Kirk/Spock era but for the fact that it was clear that there was no great audience for the TNG crew. If Nemesis had been a bit hit, we'd have had a sequel (the Search for Data!), not an effective reboot of Star Trek.

 

[DarKush]

As much as I wound up liking the Son'a, particularly F. Murray Abraham's performance, I'm digging the idea of the Romulans in Insurrection. It certainly would've raised the stakes. And Abraham could've made a good Romulan commander.

As for Nemesis, I don't see why Sela couldn't have replaced Donatra. I think it would've given that character's change of heart even more resonance with old TNG fans.

 

[JRoss]

Removal of B4, Remans not being Orcs, removal of mind rape, removal of "Can I touch your hair?" and inclusion of Sela, Tomalak and mention of the Unification movement.