NEM is already a silly cliche of TWOK, and it didn't work.
Really? There's ABSOLUTELY no way of coming up with a Star Trekkie plausible way to do this? None whatsoever? None?
Hypotheticals: what could have been done to improve Nemesis?
- Thread starter Lance
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NEM is already a silly cliche of TWOK, and it didn't work.
Really? There's ABSOLUTELY no way of coming up with a Star Trekkie plausible way to do this? None whatsoever? None?
You're not using the word "cliche" in a way that has anything to do with its actual definition.
As I said, not without radically changing the story -- and it wouldn't work anyway for the reasons I explained, because values are shaped by experience so there's no way someone with the same memories as Picard could have such radically opposed values. It makes far more sense the way it was done in the movie -- the two men are the same in nature, in genetics, but their nurture was completely different, and they spent the movie debating how much of their identity was innate and predetermined and how much of it was a matter of their own choice. That had conceptual and thematic coherence and it worked just fine for me.
This would have also made a better movie than NEM.
To each their own.
You're right. My bad. I meant "Shameless Rip-Off".
Use the cut-out scenes that were actually about the characters, fire the director, fire the script-writer and fire your next scriptwriter if he comes up with something that even remotely resembles 'vampires from the dark side of the moon take over the mighty Romulan Star Empire' and attempts to copy TWOK. (Not messing up the Romulans or trying to copy Khan would also have been a good advice for the writers of the last movie.)
In other words, start from scratch.
In other words, start from scratch.
Yeah, it would be nice to see a Romulan movie that was actually about the Romulans. I don't have any issues with the Remans per se, though their boarding action was ridiculously poorly handled, but the fact that it's a rogue faction that causes the problems weakens the overall story AFAIC.
Yep, a Romulan working man out for revenge is as interesting as the life of a Cardassian tailor. Seriously, cut out Garak's background and he would be an empty character.
Not that we have to merely see official Romulans but anything Romulan that has nothing to do with their government makes little sense. All the great Romulan stories, e.g. Balance of Terror or The Defector, worked because there was a tension between the individual and Romulan ideology.
Not that we have to merely see official Romulans but anything Romulan that has nothing to do with their government makes little sense. All the great Romulan stories, e.g. Balance of Terror or The Defector, worked because there was a tension between the individual and Romulan ideology.
It is uncanny how much he looks like a young Nimoy, but he sure doesn't sound like him. Funny how these altered realities play with your voice.
Shinzon going after Earth was just plain stupid. His gripe was with Romulus and he was right in their system. How much nobler Picards sacrifice of the Enterprise would have been had it been for a (former) enemy who would not have done the same had positions been reversed.
No Remans, no B-4, no Dune Buggy tm and no Picard Clone tm.
Will and Deanna are already married. They are on the Titan. Data is dead. New first officer. Worf is still Ambassador.
Romulans don't have the harnesses nor forehead bumps. Give them tats. Roms try invading Vulcan. Bring in Spock. Romulus blows up. Spock and Nero fall into black hole. To be Continued. . .
Will and Deanna are already married. They are on the Titan. Data is dead. New first officer. Worf is still Ambassador.
Romulans don't have the harnesses nor forehead bumps. Give them tats. Roms try invading Vulcan. Bring in Spock. Romulus blows up. Spock and Nero fall into black hole. To be Continued. . .
Christopher,
I agree with you about actor chemistry. However, about the Remans, I didn't have a problem with the idea of the Remans because like you I've wanted Trek to show their empires being populated by multiple species, but my issue with them is that I didn't want the Remans to dominate the story. I wanted the Romulans to be the primary antagonists and not play second fiddle. Ever since I saw that Romulan corpse in Generations I've been waiting for a Romulan movie. And with the Romulans playing a major role on TNG, I was hoping they would eventually get to be front and center in a TNG movie.
Your previous comments about the father-son relationship between Picard and Shinzon was something I hadn't considered before. I had seen Shinzon as being the evil twin of Picard and was more supportive of having Patrick Stewart play both roles. I still am, though your idea has given me something to ponder.
As to the person who mentioned James Marsters as Shinzon, that would've been a great choice. Nothing against Hardy, he did the best he could with what he was given, but Marsters would've been great.
So instead you want a completely different film that sounds a lot like bad fan fiction?
1) Have Riker go on the Dune buggy chase.
2) SHOW WORF KICKING ASS and frequently. He was ignored.
3) Riker beats the crap out of that Reman. He did kick Klingons' asses after-all, right?
4) A badass viewing of the U.S.S. Titan at the end of the movie, or Picard moving upstairs with Riker taking the Big E.
5) Data goes to the scimitar with a jetpack (future isn't it). He then plants a bomb on the radiation thingy and blasts away with Picard transporting off. The death of Data strengthens the movie, but it saddens me too much.
2) SHOW WORF KICKING ASS and frequently. He was ignored.
3) Riker beats the crap out of that Reman. He did kick Klingons' asses after-all, right?
4) A badass viewing of the U.S.S. Titan at the end of the movie, or Picard moving upstairs with Riker taking the Big E.
5) Data goes to the scimitar with a jetpack (future isn't it). He then plants a bomb on the radiation thingy and blasts away with Picard transporting off. The death of Data strengthens the movie, but it saddens me too much.
Ok. However, don't you find it ridiculous that Picard was Mr. Action in the movies? He's 100 years old. Riker should have had a piece of the pie regardless of Sir Patrick's higher acting quality. 
6) LaForge STAYS in engineering (with the camera there with him like the series). That's his place. He's quality there.
7) Picard and Crusher do the deed and the movie later implies an impending marriage.
7) Picard and Crusher do the deed and the movie later implies an impending marriage.
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8) The Big E separates with Riker and Picard jointly kicking ass. I love a good "beat-up" story, so don't be surprised by my hypotheses.
No jetpacks please.
This is a strange one.
The disappointment people show with Romulans not being center stage is their own fault. We don't dictate how a script is written. And we can't get upset if our desires aren't met, as they're based on nothing anyways. Or else where does it end? "The movie sucked, I've been wanting Seven of Nine to have a starring role in these movies since she was on Voyager"? Which version of Fan Fiction should the writers be paying most attention to? It's really unfair to the movie AND the viewer.
A bad comparison as wanting a movie with Romulans in it to actually be about Romulans and depict them not as guys who are conquered by their own slaves who somehow silently built a giant warbird on the dark side of the moon to take over power is not a fanwankish but a fairly reasonable demand.
No need to stick the Romulans into the tenth and eleventh movie if you treat them like the Klingons in TFF.
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