HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

[Phoenix219]

It's still an alternate universe, and in this one Sulu is gay.

Its a rewritten timeline, but the same physical people supposedly exist there. Quinto and Nimoy are supposed to be physically the same person, just having experienced different events. Its the same Sulu, whom Takei himself has always described as straight. Again, you have to resort to something like "which sperm made it" and a ton of butterfly effect "timing" issues in order to explain that this isn't the same exact Sulu. OR that experiences and surroundings attributed just as much as genetics, resulting in a different personality and preferences. I'd agree if it was a straight reboot, but its not. Its just not a clear cut answer, which could have been resolved with introducing some new characters.

Completely off topic, but I would have been much more okay with the reboots in general if they had just been straight reboots (and opening during the mission, like TOS did) - but they wanted to do this whole origin story thing with cadet Kirk. Shoehorning in the normal supporting cast was the biggest problem - they could have had a gay character right at the beginning with a clear slate and introduced Uhura, Chekov and Sulu later on in later movies. I hate Quinto as Spock, but would have loved him as Gary Mitchell, and there are so many characters between the 2 pilots that they could have gone in any direction with them - Kirk, Kelso, Mitchell, Finegan, etc at the Acaedmy, with Spock, Pike, Colt, Number One, and Jose etc on the Enterprise.

 

[angry apple panda]

My main problem with this is that they only made Sulu gay is because George Takei is. If Takei hadn't come out would we be having this conversation? Making a character gay shouldn't be a cultural reference to the actor who previously played him. It should be a reference to a more open and free society. Actor's lives shouldn't inform the creative decisions on their characters.

I feel like the cause and effect might have been reversed. It seems like they wanted to add a gay character to Star Trek, and Sulu just seemed like the likely candidate. A nod to Takei, as well as a gay character. Two birds, one stone. Ultimately it shouldn't matter much, of course.

 

[Saul]

Why not? It is obvious that the times did not allow Roddenberry and Takei to make Sulu gay. I see no better way to honor those who couldn't openly be who they were meant to be in those days.

Then we are saying that Sulu was a closeted Gay in the prime universe? That seems pretty unfair to the future vision of Gene. Also if Roddenberry had been able to make a character gay it didn't have to be Sulu either.

 

[BillJ]

Then we are saying that Sulu was a closeted Gay in the prime universe?

There's nothing saying he was closeted in-universe. Realities of 1960's television just kept us from seeing it.

 

[Pauln6]

Then we are saying that Sulu was a closeted Gay in the prime universe? That seems pretty unfair to the future vision of Gene. Also if Roddenberry had been able to make a character gay it didn't have to be Sulu either.

Generations made it clear that Sulu did not really discuss his private life with his superiors whatever that might be. Demora was 20+ before Kirk even knew she existed. Chekov, Uhura, and Rand probably knew exactly what was going on in his life but the focus is never on the supporting cast in TOS is it? ;-P

 

[borgboy]

Who's to say Sulu was closeted? He could've been openly bi/pan, or possibly gay and just flirtatious.
I don't count a reaction to Deltan phermones to mean anything conclusive.
And yeah, Kirk not even knowing Sulu had a daughter shows how private Sulu is and how much we don't know about him. I'd think his being a father without us or Kirk knowing is a bigger deal than his sexual orientation.

 

[Amaris]

Its a rewritten timeline, but the same physical people supposedly exist there. Quinto and Nimoy are supposed to be physically the same person, just having experienced different events. Its the same Sulu, whom Takei himself has always described as straight. Again, you have to resort to something like "which sperm made it" and a ton of butterfly effect "timing" issues in order to explain that this isn't the same exact Sulu. OR that experiences and surroundings attributed just as much as genetics, resulting in a different personality and preferences. I'd agree if it was a straight reboot, but its not. Its just not a clear cut answer, which could have been resolved with introducing some new characters.

Completely off topic, but I would have been much more okay with the reboots in general if they had just been straight reboots (and opening during the mission, like TOS did) - but they wanted to do this whole origin story thing with cadet Kirk. Shoehorning in the normal supporting cast was the biggest problem - they could have had a gay character right at the beginning with a clear slate and introduced Uhura, Chekov and Sulu later on in later movies. I hate Quinto as Spock, but would have loved him as Gary Mitchell, and there are so many characters between the 2 pilots that they could have gone in any direction with them - Kirk, Kelso, Mitchell, Finegan, etc at the Acaedmy, with Spock, Pike, Colt, Number One, and Jose etc on the Enterprise.

Eh, I think the butterfly effect works perfectly fine in this case. It clearly did for Chekov.

 

[BillJ]

I'm sure Takei will get over it. And, if there's money to be made, embrace it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yeah. I have to say I'm really disappointed with Takei's comments. They definitely seem rooted in self-promotion rather than any real concern--especially since both articles I read noted asides where he mentioned Fuller-Trek.

The whole "Roddenberry's vision" bit was just total nonsense, or the idea he spent considerable time pre-writing excessive bios. Hell, the first time Sulu appeared on screen he wore blue and was all about the maths.

 

[Mudd]

Sulu, whom Takei himself has always described as straight.

Tribute or not, this isn't Takei's call and never was. I doubt that he ever wrote a scene or a single word of Sulu's dialogue.

These aren't real people.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Bi or pan Sulu sounds good to me. Then I can still have a snowball's chance in my fantasies....

 

[JWPlatt]

If it's a different universe, why can't Sulu be straight in one and gay in another?

Genetics. Sulu was conceived before the timeline split. But if you say he was gay in both, there's no argument.

 

[Phoenix219]

So, respect Takei's wishes, unless we disagree with him? lmao.

 

[Captain Atkin]

Wasn't there that one embarrassing scene in TMP where Sulu gets all gaga and smitten by Ilia?

Easily explained away by her Deltan pheromones. Humans are a sexually immature species, after all.

 

[BillJ]

So, respect Takei's wishes, unless we disagree with him? lmao.

I never said anything about respecting his wishes. His wishes are really immaterial here.

 

[borgboy]

Genetics. Sulu was conceived before the timeline split. But if you say he was gay in both, there's no argument.

I think Sulu was supposed to be born a few years after the split. If we can deal with Chekov being too old, I can deal with Sulu having a husband. He can always be bi/pan, and the evidence of him being interested in women isn't all that compelling if you give him a pass for reacting to Deltan phermones and just consider that he's playfully flirtacious. It's not a huge strech to reconcile.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Berman, Braga and Moore never added a gay character to the cast or did an episode which involved homosexual characters. Despite them all communicating that they wanted to.

JJA said that he would consider adding a gay character to STID, prior to it's release. It didn't happen, and now JJA is alluding that a gay character (couple) may appear in future Star Wars movies. Teasing the StormPilot fans.

It took Justin Lin from the Fast and Furious franchise to add an openly gay character to Star Trek.

Actually only 50 years. But you get my meaning. Haha

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Good call.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Genetics. Sulu was conceived before the timeline split. But if you say he was gay in both, there's no argument.

I think Sulu was supposed to be born a few years after the split. If we can deal with Chekov being too old, I can deal with Sulu having a husband. He can always be bi/pan, and the evidence of him being interested in women isn't all that compelling if you give him a pass for reacting to Deltan phermones and just consider that he's playfully flirtacious. It's not a huge strech to reconcile.

I've never seen any indication Sulu was older than Kirk in either universe.

 

[CorporalClegg]

One of my biggest issues with the whole "Gene's vision" crap is just how badly all four spin-off shows dropped the ball on gay rights and equality issues, despite them being one of the prominent (if not the main) social issues of the era.

During that whole time there was one TNG episode that sort-of addresses the issue by passive-aggressively dancing around it. ENT focus more on a side issue. DS9 had an episode that attacked the most directly, however it ended with the characters capitulating to the social taboo.

On top of that, DS9 also attributed homosexual behavior to "evil" versions of the main characters.

Really, it say "it's about time" is an understatement.

Wasn't there that one embarrassing scene in TMP where Sulu gets all gaga and smitten by Ilia?

Meh. I consider myself strait, and yet I still get gaga and smitten whenever I see a picture of Idris Elba. And that's without the power of super magical alien BO.