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How would you re-imagine the NX-01 Enterprise?

Still dont see how the ENT period has to have the same texturing as the TOS period. It may have matched post TOS more but it also matched the design of the Phoenix in FC

Kirkunit said:
Why did the antenna style deflector vanish after 1701 only to reappear on 1701-D?


I like to think the aztec hull patterns are used to help scatter enemy sensors, somewhat like the angled plating on stealth fighters today. That would explain why the patterns aren't really random, but purposefully thought out. By the time 1701 was launched, Starfleet believed they had other measures in place that were equally effective. Starfleet was proven wrong & for 1701's refit the aztec pattern was re-instigated.

The 1701-D had an antenna? Where?

I like your theory on the aztec pattern, obviously nothing has been ever said in canon and I cant think of a way for that to work though.

Kind of a flip side, what if the paint ect of the TOS era was meant to try to absorb sensor scans to try an minimise the ships sensor signature?
 
"Kind of a flip side, what if the paint ect of the TOS era was meant to try to absorb sensor scans to try an minimise the ships sensor signature?" Starburst


Just jumping in here- How do I quote someone?

While it would be nice to rationalize the paint schemes or aztecing with having the ability to scatter sensor readings, I think that goes against the Federation's policy on friendly exploration and cloaking (sensor deception would essentially be a cloaking technique)...

Anyway's as this is Trek Art, the various paint schemes are just there to make the ships look pretty! NX-01 just looks like a rip off of various ships from the various Trek ships with little actual original artistic merit to it. When I look at it, I see warp nacelles from TOS; hull plating, saucer shape, and bridge from the Kirk era movies; and blobby strutty thingies coming out of the saucer, taken from Akira... And I'm not saying anything new here that everyone else doesn't see.

What the hell was my point??? Oh yeah- that's pretty much why I don't like her. The series creators had the opportunity to either design something new, or use something already recognizable like the apocryphal Daedalus.

Of course now I have to re-imagine an NX-01 here to make this fit into the thread... Er... I'll get back on that one.
 
I'd re-imagine the NX-01 as scrap medal towed by a garbage scow...

Oh, wait! It already is that. So never mind.
 
starburst said:
The 1701-D had an antenna? Where?
It's the copper elipse nested in the deflector dish. It's tough to see, but if you've ever built the model, you'd know it was a seperate peice.


I like your theory on the aztec pattern, obviously nothing has been ever said in canon...
Which is kind of the point of coming up with reasons to make things work. :)

Kind of a flip side, what if the paint ect of the TOS era was meant to try to absorb sensor scans to try an minimise the ships sensor signature?
Absolutely! What if?
 
Ziz said:
The NX is fine as it is. The problem isn't the ship, it's fans' linear mentality towards continuity. They don't know how to look at real scientific and technological progress as a basis for comparison.

No product that has evolved over the years from what it started out as to what it is now has followed a linear progression. Everything had that one or two side-tracks where someone tried something different that, while it might not have necessarily been a bad idea, just didn't seem to work out at the time.

So, to put that into Trek context - the Connie class, and the general design attitude of Starfleet during those years - smooth painted hulls - was one of those diversions. Not that it was a bad idea in and of itself, just that, upon reflection in later years, was decided that there was no real benefit to the extra labor and materials involved.

All that extra hull plating and gallons upon gallons of paint added considerable mass to the ship, decreasing warp efficiency and increasing general power needs. That's why it was a faster trip to Kronos in Archer's day, but longer in Kirk's time. The distance didn't change, the ship's nominal cruise speed changed. Decreased warp efficiency during the TOS years would also explain why the warp chart was re-calibrated during the TNG years. It wasn't changed and re-calculated for the hell of it, it was just corrected BACK to what it was prior to 100 or so years ago.

The fan base as a whole used to be WONDERFUL at creating their own fiction to fill in the blanks in the continuity. Ever since the late TNG years though, when so much "official" source material started to show up, they've become a bunch of whining crybabies who want every last detail planned out ahead of time and served to them on a silver platter. They don't want to THINK any more.
Sorry, Ziz, but this lumps fans and critics alike together into an amorphous group, as often happens (I've found) when someone simply disagrees with them, and neither acknowledges nor distinguishes their motives.

Many fans do think - if anything, I'd say that Trek fans are more guilty of/capable of this than practically any other group. And as far as NX-01 goes, you've left out the single most glaring factor between the "creativity" whose loss you bemoan and the "whining" with which you characterize the critics (and on a side note, please refrain from this sort of name-calling - it's perilously close to trolling):

Yes, Trek fans have demonstrated incredible creativity in filling in the blanks, but in the case of NX-01, what you describe as creativity is largely rationalization, creating excuses for the lack of creativity on the part of B&B and Paramount. Let's face it, the ship's design is entirely the result of expediency, not creativity, nor a commitment to the concept. They borrowed its design, as they borrowed everything else in the show, in order to avoid committing themselves to anything creative, anything new, and I don't think anyone deserves to be dismissed simply for pointing this fact out.

Many fans, myself included, are far less concerned with issues of continuity, whether visual or technological, than with the fact that ENT and its centerpiece ship were somewhat (okay, very) cynically assembled as a pre-fab attempt to bypass the fans' critical minds and hit them in their more-vulnerable memories, to trigger recognition of concrete elements rather than appeal to the abstract concepts that are truly the foundation of Star Trek. They treated us as a commodity and as a consumer, slapping "new and improved" labels onto a product that was neither, and hoped the gloss of the packaging would make us ignore that we were getting a watered-down product.

Had they gone the extra mile and maybe looked outside their existing creative pool, maybe Trek's fans would still be using their famed creativity to expand the universe, rather than to explain away all of its mistakes and missteps; wouldn't it be more fun to think about the ship's technology if it weren't also such a blatant copy of a ship that a vocal group of fans had expressed an interest in, giving TPTB their perceived license to cut that particular corner and hope they could "count on us" for support because of it?

I don't personally want every detail planned out in advance and served up, but that's exactly what we got, so it's inaccurate to say that's the basis of fans' dissatisfaction. TPTB didn't accidentally modify Akira, they didn't accidentally pick "Enterprise" for its name recognition, in the face of contrary facts established within the franchise, nor did they accidentally tell story upon story upon story that was either a slight variation on one already told, or a forced back story of a well-known tale, technology or concept. It really doesn't get more coldly calculating than that. What was missing was the effort to plan something unique, to show us things and tell us things that we hadn't imagined, or expected, things that might truly have sparked our creativity.

For many of us, it's not what NX-01 looks like that is the problem, but what it represents.
 
Well, then I guess I just have a different point of view towards the NX and Trek than most fans.

I'm not in charge of Trek any more than any other fan here (or not here, for that matter) is. It's easy to sit around and bash B&B, complaining that the NX should have been this or could have been that. At the end of the day though, the NX is what it is, no matter how much we complain about it.

How many "alternate future Enterprises" have had to be thrown out of fans' manufactured continuity over the years as TNG, DS9, VOY and the movies started to fill in those blanks? One that immediately comes to mind was a poster that came out early in TNG's run that showed the B as a standard Excelsior class and the C as a totally manufacured "Athabaska" class. Well, a few seaons later, "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave us the Ambassador class E-C, and the B showed up in Generations as a modified Excelsior, not a standard one. Fans accepted that pretty well, so what's with the animosity towards NX?

So rather than waste effort wishing for what might have been, my logic is "Ok, this is what the NX is, we can't change it, but we can change our attitude towards it. If it doesn't fit into the imagined continuity that fans have created up until now, then obviously the fans are the ones that have to change their minds and attitudes to fit the NX into the continuity that does exist."

I think of the Trek continuity as an alegbra problem, where you're given an "X" amongst a jumble of numbers and functions and you have to keep back-figuring from what you know to find the value of "X". In this case, "X" is the conditions that would make the NX fit into the continuity. You know that the value is in there somewhere, you just have to keep dancing around what you know until you find it. Is it an absolute, empirical, perfectly balanced value? No. Will it be easy to find? No. But how many times before has the fanbase had to invent some kind of "continuity band-aid" to explain how Trek got from point A to point B? How is this situation any different?

There are some things about the NX that I like and some that I don't, but again, I'm not in the position to redesign it for all of Trekdom, so rather than complain about how it doesn't fit my personal version of Trek, I'd rather find a way to make it fit the version of Trek that already exists.
 
Patrickivan said:
Just jumping in here- How do I quote someone?

Instead of hitting the button marked "Reply" you hit the button right next to it marked "Quote". ;)
Or use the code
------------

Anyways, from the artistic POV, I found the NX very clunky and awkward from most angles. It was so overloaded with crap details I never could figure out where the landing bays were until I saw a diagram in ST:TC. Certainly there is no need for that sort of thing.
 
Ziz said:

So rather than waste effort wishing for what might have been, my logic is "Ok, this is what the NX is, we can't change it, but we can change our attitude towards it. If it doesn't fit into the imagined continuity that fans have created up until now, then obviously the fans are the ones that have to change their minds and attitudes to fit the NX into the continuity that does exist."

No, I don't.

If you like the show(and many do)then more power to you. However, if you expect others to compromise their standards and fall into line accepting ENT, then you've set yourself an impossible task.

To me it was like going to the B&B restaurant, ordering a steak, and being given a steaming pile of S**t. Upon trying to complain, you get told :"We call it a steak. So don't argue and enjoy!"

No amount of ketchup will make me eat.
 
Well, to extend your analogy, to me ENT was like ordering a Porterhouse steak and then being told, "Sorry all we have is T-Bone steak...good enough?" May not be exactly what you ordered, but it was still cut from the same cow.
 
Or in this case, ordering a Porterhouse and getting the same Porterhouse that someone ate last night :eek:.

You're right: the NX-01 is what it is - a used car. But one that was repainted and sold as a new car, in the hopes that the buyers wouldn't notice, and if they did, that they would quietly accept it because, hey, they got a great deal on it. Caveat emptor. But you're wrong that we can't do anything about it - we already have. Consumer dissatisfaction has caused Paramount to reevaluate their product, take the underperforming and critically-panned recycled stuff off the shelves, and at least attempt to get back to what the customers want - the same as any company might do. We'll see if the "new from the ground up" version - the new cow - might be better than the "new and improved," repainted cow. And if it isn't, then, once again, we'll have the right to say we don't like it, and even to say why, and suggest how to fix it. Star Trek ceased being art a long time ago, if it ever was; once they discovered they could actually make money with it, then they essentially signed a contract with the viewers to provide goods in return for cash, and when you do that, you either provide what the customer needs or you don't have the customer at all.

I know I'm not alone in saying, "I bitch because I care"; Trek means enough to me that I'm willing to defend what's good about it and to point out what's bad. I'm also not alone in going beyond bitching to create an alternative, just like a "good Star Trek fan," using that famed creativity to go beyond what was on the screen. Fan ingenuity is at its best when it adds to what talented people have done, but with ENT, we were asked to basically do their work for them - not merely to fill in the blanks, but also the spaces between those blanks, because they saw us as just that desperate, and just such easy marks; they could pass off recycled stuff because we were perceived as being willing to accept it and even eager to rationalize it away. Not a very flattering thought, if you ask me. "Indiscriminate" is the word that comes to mind. At least it sounds better than "gullible." And much better than "stupid." But those words describe exactly how we were treated.

I don't have to accept that. I'm surprised anyone would.

And since this is an art forum ...

TrekArt_ptrope_TPol_Acceptance.jpg
 
I tend to agree with the sentiments being described here, though I am a bit less... fervent... about them than most. See, I found Enterprise MUCH more enjoyable that any episode of "Voyager" I ever saw. (The only enjoyable Voyager stuff, for me, was the game "Elite Force.") It was far better than any "Worf learns about fatherhood" episode or "Troi explores her feelings" episode or "Data learns something today" episode or "Wesley saves the day" episode on TNG.

Face it... every series had crap. Enterprise had its share of crap, too.

The problem with Enterprise was the original approach... as described... was to give us more of "Berman-era Trek" rather than to give us more STAR TREK. I mean, for cryin' out loud, they used TNG-type shoulder-pads on the uniforms... and they didn't even bother to change any of the paradigms (transporters, phasers, yadda yadda...).

A show with NO transporter, no artificial gravity forcefields, no replicators (oh, sorry... "protein resequencers"... gag)... and so on.

When viewed from the standpoint of "Berman Trek" rather than "All Star Trek" it's not a bad show. The problem is that it SHOULD have been made to FEEL more like TOS than like Voyager or TNG... and it wasn't.

The ideal would be to make a show where the "feel" is a blend between TODAY and TOS. And if you set a show between the TMP and TNG eras, you'd want that show to "feel" like a blend between THOSE two eras.

The reason that ENT rubs so many people raw, I think, is that it basically told us to IGNORE the classic Trek era. It gave us a prequel to TNG, not to TOS.

Which takes us back to the point of this thread... the ship should have been made to look like a blend between TODAY's technology and TOS's technology. No "TNG-era" technology should have even been HINTED at.
Ptrope said:And since this is an art forum ...

TrekArt_ptrope_TPol_Acceptance.jpg
I LOVE this picture, PTrope... (but isn't that dangerously close to "hijacking a thread?") I particulary like the fact that the areas that are PINK on a human (or a human playing a Vulcan) happen to be, correctly, GREEN on her. And the uniform definitely says "TMP." So, who is this green chick and what's her story?
 
Cary L. Brown said:
I LOVE this picture, PTrope... (but isn't that dangerously close to "hijacking a thread?") I particulary like the fact that the areas that are PINK on a human (or a human playing a Vulcan) happen to be, correctly, GREEN on her. And the uniform definitely says "TMP." So, who is this green chick and what's her story?
Could it be PTrobe's re-imagining of the NX-01's science officer? Even if not thats how T'Pol should have looked none of this short bowl cut (Romulanish) hair
 
starburst is indeed correct - this is 'my' T'Pol, assigned and welcomed to Endeavour (as opposed to being tolerated by a bigoted captain whose seeming sole claim to the job is nepotism), wearing a formal Vulcan uniform (although when on regular duty, she would wear the standard uniform of Starfleet). (So, in essence, she's almost on-topic, since she's part of my grand "reimagining of NX-01" ;)).
 
As much as I enjoy Enterprise, and list it as my second favorite of the series (after DS9), that uniform is vastly better than anything they stuck on T'pol. More attractive, too.
 
Ptrope said:
starburst is indeed correct - this is 'my' T'Pol, assigned and welcomed to Endeavour (as opposed to being tolerated by a bigoted captain whose seeming sole claim to the job is nepotism), wearing a formal Vulcan uniform (although when on regular duty, she would wear the standard uniform of Starfleet). (So, in essence, she's almost on-topic, since she's part of my grand "reimagining of NX-01" ;)).

NO BOWL CUT?!!1 DON'T YOU KNOW, ALL VULCANS AND ROMULANS HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME HAIR-CUT?!! :mad: :mad:

:lol:
 
Well, I pretty much couldn't stand Enterprise for all the same reasons that have been thouroughly covered in this thread. The ship was the first thing I saw of the show, and I was immediately angry. I saw a picture of it in a TV Guide, and first thing I thought was, "This has to be a joke or a trick to fool the fans so the real design doesn't get leaked." I mean, the ship was just a modified and retextured Akira. That was a big slap in the face to me. Just imagine if they'd done basically the same thing using the Enterprise-D as a basis?

Anyway, when Enterprise first came out, I made this model in my backlash. Never finished it, almost forgot that I had it.


SSEnterprise1.jpg


SSEnterprise2.jpg


SSEnterprise3.jpg


SSEnterprise4.jpg


SSEnterprise5.jpg


SSEnterprise6.jpg
 
Icy_Penguigo said:
Well, I pretty much couldn't stand Enterprise for all the same reasons that have been thouroughly covered in this thread. The ship was the first thing I saw of the show, and I was immediately angry. I saw a picture of it in a TV Guide, and first thing I thought was, "This has to be a joke or a trick to fool the fans so the real design doesn't get leaked." I mean, the ship was just a modified and retextured Akira. That was a big slap in the face to me. Just imagine if they'd done basically the same thing using the Enterprise-D as a basis?

Anyway, when Enterprise first came out, I made this model in my backlash. Never finished it, almost forgot that I had it.


SSEnterprise1.jpg


SSEnterprise2.jpg


SSEnterprise3.jpg


SSEnterprise4.jpg


SSEnterprise5.jpg


SSEnterprise6.jpg
 
Icy_Penguigo, that looks almost perfect. It just needs something up on the bow to finish it off. Not a full saucer, to be sure, but something to suggest the bud of a saucer section.
 
Icy_Penguigo,

I could live with something like that. A ship that's built around the warp core. It's technologically limited, but it can still look cool like this one! Let the next ship in line be a little more complicated in design. Each subsequent one can show more familiar characteristics. Make it look cool and familiar. Let Trek Tech figure out how everything works on it. ;)
 
Psion said:
Icy_Penguigo, that looks almost perfect. It just needs something up on the bow to finish it off. Not a full saucer, to be sure, but something to suggest the bud of a saucer section.

Thanks, psion. What I was going for was an early precursor to the Daedalus-class. One of the things I thought about was that structural integrity forcefields would be in the early stages of development, and not as powerful as they are later. Hence the ship is one solid structure, without any discernable "habitation" section or "engineering" section. I figured as starships got bigger and structural integrity fields got more advanced, that would have become a design feature of starships to help safeguard the crews(i.e. seperating the saucer so it can escape). Also, note the cables attached to the warp engines. Those are there to help mitigate the damage in the event the SIF goes offline(without their warp engines, they are extremely screwed).

A few other features of this ship: This ship is extremely small, 7 or 8 decks at most. Living accomodations are very cramped and sparse. That big window on the front is the command cabin. It's more of a glorified cockpit than the spacious bridges on later starships. It is armed warp-targeted lasers and nuclear missiles. It has no shields, no transporters. It is capable of planetary landings, but also has two shuttlecraft hangars and a generous compliment of shuttles(they depend on them much more). It must return to a base once a year to refuel but possesses enough emergency supplies for the crew to survive up to two years, if necessary.

Five ships of this class were constructed, and the exploration and research they conducted helped human knowledge make unimaginable leaps in a very small amount of time.

S.S. Frontier (class ship)
S.S. Pioneer
S.S. Discovery
S.S. Explorer
S.S. Voyager
 
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