Mortally wounded, meaning probably will die, but slim chance of survival.
How would you fix the series finale?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
I've always heard the expression used to mean almost certain death, but not absolute, meaning a "slim" chance of survival.
If we had seen the Titan in TATV they'd likely use a pre-existing 24th century design, as I doubt they'd have spent the time at this stage to create a new design that would only be seen once in the foreseeable future.
Wikipedia and Google define the term as meaning an injury which will result in death, though Wikipedia notes the term does often get erroneously used in a figurative sense.
When I googled, I got both definitions. It can mean "resulting in death" and it can also mean "probably resulting in death, but maybe not."
Elizabeth lives, while Reed, Hoshi and Travis get promoted for their role in stopping Terra Prime. Or Starfleet Command gets destroyed by Terra Prime, and Vulcan, Andoria and Tellar choose to stand by Earth while the rest of the alien species walk away from an alliance. Maybe even have those aliens allude that the Klingons and Romulans are suitable alternatives to the Coalition of Planet, thereby setting up the power dynamics in later series.
Oh you mean the other finale. Well then…
To start, not all of the issues that have been repeatedly stated with TATV over the years are really the issue with the episode at all.
Riker and Troi in the finale at all in the first place is not the problem, though I know Jonathan Frakes has said they should not have been there. It could have been anyone in that episode - Spock, Uhura, Sulu, Harry Kim and the Doctor post- “Endgame”. Even a Sisko appearance, as Avery Brooks was more openminded about acting at this time. The point is to conect the past to the future, so it's forgivable, imo.
Riker and Troi looking as they are, ten years older, is not the problem, despite that being a longstanding criticism. There was a whole TOS episode where Kirk rapidly ages, so a throwaway line of some offscreen adventure the TNG crew just had that made Riker and Troi look older wasn’t out of the realm of possibility. That that wasn't done tobegin with is the first sign of the lazy writing that plagued the episode.
The NX-01 crew not being promoted or reassigned to another ship is not the problem, as annoying of an issue that is. Though it would have been nice to had a couple of lines explaining it ex. Hoshi and Travis are brevet ensigns and were never going to be promoted, Reed’s career stalled after the Section 31 Klingon augment virus conspiracy, T’Pol declined a promotion to stick with Archer, they were reassigned but the ship(s) they were reassigned to was/were destroyed.
And the matter of Trip and T’Pol not being together anymore, while controversial, is actually a non-issue. It’s not that I ship Archer/T’Pol over Trip/T’Pol (I’m a Travis/Hoshi shipper, and I know that does not happen in the end), but give us a plausible reason why Trip and T’Pol are not together anymore. That being that they tried to have another child after Elizabeth and failed and drifted apart, and T’Pol engaged in fullara to forget her romantic relationship with Trip to the best of her ability.
So, where did they really go wrong with this episode?
On the TNG side…
- That it’s set during “The Pegasus”. There was no reason to bring that episode into this mess. So, get rid of that framing and just set it between AGT and GEN. And make it a lost episode of TNG.
- There is an overreliance to use the holodeck to tell the story. It’s was another clear sign that B&B were just going through the motions with ENT and should have just done a Lost Era show on the Excelsior or Ent-B from the beginning. They only knew how to tell stories within a 24th century framework, and lacked imagination that that’s not how it should be for ENT. They should have just had Riker read historical logs from a PADD in the 24th century with Troi. And in the 22nd century timeframe we see Riker in the roles of Chef, a MACO, and a bridge officer and those events from their perspective. Drop the whole holodeck observation mode. The extent of the holodeck usage should be the tour of the ship Riker and Troi went on, and the Federation founding ceremony.
- Since it’s a finale to all Trek of the past 18 years, mention that they are going to stop over at DS9 and that there’s excitement over the launch of Voyager and the Intrepid class. And name drop the rest of the TNG crew too. Worf’s upcoming promotion in GEN. Beverly’s given them something to reverse the aging. Geordi redirecting them to a different holodeck as he performs maintenance to prevent another Moriarty incident. And the Picard and Data’s references largely remains the same.
On the ENT side…
- It’s just not a plausible story set in 2161. They don’t sell me, or anyone else, on the idea that it’s 2161. No changes in their professional or personal lives. No signs they are older with wrinkles, greying hairstyles, grown out facial hair, or wedding rings. No discernible battle scars. Not even a Starfleet uniform for T’Pol. We don’t even see a copy-and-paste fleet of NX class vessels orbiting Earth to show how much Starfleet has grown in the past decade. All we get are a faked death with Shran, Shran’s daughter, the bridge being refit to be like the NX-02 and epaulets and nametags added to the uniforms. As events are presented in TATV, it’s far more plausible to believe it’s set in 2156, and they’re signing the charter in response to war breaking out with the Romulans. That makes sense and is something that will lead to the birth of the Federation that Riker and Troi know. So, the first change is to decide whether the finale is set in 2156, at the dawn of the Romulan War. Or set in 2161 at the birth of the Federation, and make everyone and everything change appropriately to that. And there is no reason that they could not have done a timeskip within the episode either. So, in 2161, reveal that Reed moved on to being first officer on Columbia, while Travis moved on to assist in the NX Project, while Hoshi and Phlox remained on Enterprise. Trip and T’Pol are promoted to co-captains of the NX-01 for its first 4 year mission under the Federation banner. Shran’s now a Federation ambassador, while Archer is heading up Starfleet and following in Admiral Forrest's footsteps.
- The sequence of events are out of order. Have Trip and Chef’s discussion in the first act of the episode, not in the fourth and final act. That the second change here.
- If Brent Spiner was brought in to voiceover Data, he could have also done a voiceover of a log as Arik Soong about some illegal experimental Augment drug he invented to resurrect Trip Tucker. Which allows Trip to be beside with T’Pol when Archer walks out for his speech. That’s the third change.
- Have Shran and his daughter attend the Federation founding too, with Trip and T’Pol. Instead of just disappear. That’s the fourth change.
- If its trying to make use of Archer’s preordained future role in founding Federation as established in “Zero Hour”, and thereby Trip dies because or Archer’s recklessness, Archer’s actions were not reckless enough. Not to mention I doubt Archer would not have told Trip of all people his experience with Daniels about his role in the Federation. Considering how big of a deal is made about their friendship in the episode. And if Archer told Trip, then there’s just no good reason for Trip to be acting stupid and to worry that Archer might die and sacrifice himself. So, let’s get rid of all of that.
- Finally is the matter of Trip dying. Even though Trip dying is not the issue – its the manner of how he died and it’s role in the story. Remember that Future Troi was killed offscreen in AGT. But that death was used to explain the wedge between Future Riker and Future Worf. Trip’s death does nothing for the story, and is also very un-Trip-like. It’s more like how Reed would die. Trip would be more likely to die save the ship from falling part or the core breaching. It could have also suggested he was suffering from PTSD from some war (i.e. the Xindi or the Romulans) when he made that decision to blow himself up, but did not. But there are alternative to justify that decision. So, instead have Trip know that Archer is safe and that Daniels won’t allow anything to happen to him specifically. And Trip tries to save the ship to save the lives of everyone else onboard after something malfunctions. And his initial death – that gets reversed by Soong’s drug – is a workplace accident caused by the ship being structurally comprised from the many battles it’s been in.
At least with these changes, even if its not another AGT or “What You Leave Behind”, it’s at least as passable as “Endgame”, or decent as the episode "Terra Prime" before it. That’s all TATV needed to be.
Oh you mean the other finale. Well then…
To start, not all of the issues that have been repeatedly stated with TATV over the years are really the issue with the episode at all.
Riker and Troi in the finale at all in the first place is not the problem, though I know Jonathan Frakes has said they should not have been there. It could have been anyone in that episode - Spock, Uhura, Sulu, Harry Kim and the Doctor post- “Endgame”. Even a Sisko appearance, as Avery Brooks was more openminded about acting at this time. The point is to conect the past to the future, so it's forgivable, imo.
Riker and Troi looking as they are, ten years older, is not the problem, despite that being a longstanding criticism. There was a whole TOS episode where Kirk rapidly ages, so a throwaway line of some offscreen adventure the TNG crew just had that made Riker and Troi look older wasn’t out of the realm of possibility. That that wasn't done tobegin with is the first sign of the lazy writing that plagued the episode.
The NX-01 crew not being promoted or reassigned to another ship is not the problem, as annoying of an issue that is. Though it would have been nice to had a couple of lines explaining it ex. Hoshi and Travis are brevet ensigns and were never going to be promoted, Reed’s career stalled after the Section 31 Klingon augment virus conspiracy, T’Pol declined a promotion to stick with Archer, they were reassigned but the ship(s) they were reassigned to was/were destroyed.
And the matter of Trip and T’Pol not being together anymore, while controversial, is actually a non-issue. It’s not that I ship Archer/T’Pol over Trip/T’Pol (I’m a Travis/Hoshi shipper, and I know that does not happen in the end), but give us a plausible reason why Trip and T’Pol are not together anymore. That being that they tried to have another child after Elizabeth and failed and drifted apart, and T’Pol engaged in fullara to forget her romantic relationship with Trip to the best of her ability.
So, where did they really go wrong with this episode?
On the TNG side…
- That it’s set during “The Pegasus”. There was no reason to bring that episode into this mess. So, get rid of that framing and just set it between AGT and GEN. And make it a lost episode of TNG.
- There is an overreliance to use the holodeck to tell the story. It’s was another clear sign that B&B were just going through the motions with ENT and should have just done a Lost Era show on the Excelsior or Ent-B from the beginning. They only knew how to tell stories within a 24th century framework, and lacked imagination that that’s not how it should be for ENT. They should have just had Riker read historical logs from a PADD in the 24th century with Troi. And in the 22nd century timeframe we see Riker in the roles of Chef, a MACO, and a bridge officer and those events from their perspective. Drop the whole holodeck observation mode. The extent of the holodeck usage should be the tour of the ship Riker and Troi went on, and the Federation founding ceremony.
- Since it’s a finale to all Trek of the past 18 years, mention that they are going to stop over at DS9 and that there’s excitement over the launch of Voyager and the Intrepid class. And name drop the rest of the TNG crew too. Worf’s upcoming promotion in GEN. Beverly’s given them something to reverse the aging. Geordi redirecting them to a different holodeck as he performs maintenance to prevent another Moriarty incident. And the Picard and Data’s references largely remains the same.
On the ENT side…
- It’s just not a plausible story set in 2161. They don’t sell me, or anyone else, on the idea that it’s 2161. No changes in their professional or personal lives. No signs they are older with wrinkles, greying hairstyles, grown out facial hair, or wedding rings. No discernible battle scars. Not even a Starfleet uniform for T’Pol. We don’t even see a copy-and-paste fleet of NX class vessels orbiting Earth to show how much Starfleet has grown in the past decade. All we get are a faked death with Shran, Shran’s daughter, the bridge being refit to be like the NX-02 and epaulets and nametags added to the uniforms. As events are presented in TATV, it’s far more plausible to believe it’s set in 2156, and they’re signing the charter in response to war breaking out with the Romulans. That makes sense and is something that will lead to the birth of the Federation that Riker and Troi know. So, the first change is to decide whether the finale is set in 2156, at the dawn of the Romulan War. Or set in 2161 at the birth of the Federation, and make everyone and everything change appropriately to that. And there is no reason that they could not have done a timeskip within the episode either. So, in 2161, reveal that Reed moved on to being first officer on Columbia, while Travis moved on to assist in the NX Project, while Hoshi and Phlox remained on Enterprise. Trip and T’Pol are promoted to co-captains of the NX-01 for its first 4 year mission under the Federation banner. Shran’s now a Federation ambassador, while Archer is heading up Starfleet and following in Admiral Forrest's footsteps.
- The sequence of events are out of order. Have Trip and Chef’s discussion in the first act of the episode, not in the fourth and final act. That the second change here.
- If Brent Spiner was brought in to voiceover Data, he could have also done a voiceover of a log as Arik Soong about some illegal experimental Augment drug he invented to resurrect Trip Tucker. Which allows Trip to be beside with T’Pol when Archer walks out for his speech. That’s the third change.
- Have Shran and his daughter attend the Federation founding too, with Trip and T’Pol. Instead of just disappear. That’s the fourth change.
- If its trying to make use of Archer’s preordained future role in founding Federation as established in “Zero Hour”, and thereby Trip dies because or Archer’s recklessness, Archer’s actions were not reckless enough. Not to mention I doubt Archer would not have told Trip of all people his experience with Daniels about his role in the Federation. Considering how big of a deal is made about their friendship in the episode. And if Archer told Trip, then there’s just no good reason for Trip to be acting stupid and to worry that Archer might die and sacrifice himself. So, let’s get rid of all of that.
- Finally is the matter of Trip dying. Even though Trip dying is not the issue – its the manner of how he died and it’s role in the story. Remember that Future Troi was killed offscreen in AGT. But that death was used to explain the wedge between Future Riker and Future Worf. Trip’s death does nothing for the story, and is also very un-Trip-like. It’s more like how Reed would die. Trip would be more likely to die save the ship from falling part or the core breaching. It could have also suggested he was suffering from PTSD from some war (i.e. the Xindi or the Romulans) when he made that decision to blow himself up, but did not. But there are alternative to justify that decision. So, instead have Trip know that Archer is safe and that Daniels won’t allow anything to happen to him specifically. And Trip tries to save the ship to save the lives of everyone else onboard after something malfunctions. And his initial death – that gets reversed by Soong’s drug – is a workplace accident caused by the ship being structurally comprised from the many battles it’s been in.
At least with these changes, even if its not another AGT or “What You Leave Behind”, it’s at least as passable as “Endgame”, or decent as the episode "Terra Prime" before it. That’s all TATV needed to be.
They used a brand-new CGI model of the Enterprise-D for TATV that they never used again. So it’s not a far stretch to assume they couldn’t have created a new design for the Titan. I believe the Pocket Books design was already in existence by TATV but I’m almost positive they wouldn’t have used it because they wanted to keep anything from the novelverse separate from onscreen canon.*
*Correction: TATV was shown in May 2005, and the winner of the Design the Titan contest wasn’t announced until October 2005. So Tourangeau’s design didn’t exist at the time TATV was being produced.
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Spend that money on a an episode called "Coda" that ends with a cliffhanger involving Romulan ships entering Federation space. On the nose, I know, but it treats the last two parter as a finale, and this episode as the start of something else.
No deaths, perhaps Enterprise loses a nacelle, but ultimately a screaming reason to find out what happens next.
No deaths, perhaps Enterprise loses a nacelle, but ultimately a screaming reason to find out what happens next.
I would plead to separate the two. 1) The finale of Enterprise followed by 2) The valentine to the fans wrapping up almost 20 years. Broadcast TV loved a special event. Plus we could include it as an extra on the DVD release. I’d argue that this may be the last Trek set we will ever see so we might as well put it to good use.
I’m just throwing out ideas here… but it’s the end of an era. Some of our former cast members might be feeling nostalgic and be kind. Let’s see who we can round up for a couple of days of shooting. They only need to commit to let’s say half a day and we’re paying peanuts but it’s a fond farewell and maybe helps establish them more firmly as honored guests at all those future conventions.
Now, we need the barest bones of a framing device so let’s say a lot of people take great comfort in using a holographic representation of the bridge of the NX-01 as a place to ponder things. It reminds them how far the Federation has come. It rekindles their feeling of awe at traveling through space. It connects them to the pioneers they looked up to as they completed their Starfleet training.
So we have everybody that we can rope into this come in one by one and sit in Archer’s chair, look pensive for a moment and then monologue about something. We do a very simple cut to the next one, it doesn’t need to be anything much, it’s a salute to these characters and this world we loved so well. It’s an event, not an adventure. Finally, we gather everybody together that’s there each day for filming and have a rousing thank you to the fans, a bittersweet goodbye to each other and a bon voyage to the world of Star Trek.
As for the Enterprise finale? This gets rid of the need to smash together several show’s worth of characters. Meaningfully move them ahead or let them be in 2155 — either, if done well, is fine with me. I’d prefer it if no one died, Enterprise fans have already been stabbed through the heart, there’s no need to twist the knife. If you absolutely must, let them die heroically and intelligently. No one, especially the foremost engineer in the fleet, should go out like Trip did.
I’m just throwing out ideas here… but it’s the end of an era. Some of our former cast members might be feeling nostalgic and be kind. Let’s see who we can round up for a couple of days of shooting. They only need to commit to let’s say half a day and we’re paying peanuts but it’s a fond farewell and maybe helps establish them more firmly as honored guests at all those future conventions.
Now, we need the barest bones of a framing device so let’s say a lot of people take great comfort in using a holographic representation of the bridge of the NX-01 as a place to ponder things. It reminds them how far the Federation has come. It rekindles their feeling of awe at traveling through space. It connects them to the pioneers they looked up to as they completed their Starfleet training.
So we have everybody that we can rope into this come in one by one and sit in Archer’s chair, look pensive for a moment and then monologue about something. We do a very simple cut to the next one, it doesn’t need to be anything much, it’s a salute to these characters and this world we loved so well. It’s an event, not an adventure. Finally, we gather everybody together that’s there each day for filming and have a rousing thank you to the fans, a bittersweet goodbye to each other and a bon voyage to the world of Star Trek.
As for the Enterprise finale? This gets rid of the need to smash together several show’s worth of characters. Meaningfully move them ahead or let them be in 2155 — either, if done well, is fine with me. I’d prefer it if no one died, Enterprise fans have already been stabbed through the heart, there’s no need to twist the knife. If you absolutely must, let them die heroically and intelligently. No one, especially the foremost engineer in the fleet, should go out like Trip did.
#2 If B&B want Trip & T'Pol broken up, have it be more recent so it can tie into the episode itself.
#3 Killing off Trip isn't a big deal; they knew it was over and there wouldn't be a movie.
I'd say both of those shouldn't have happened.
Fanfic has done a pretty good job presenting alternatives... But the show itself could - and should - have done so.
I was thinking closer to the cliffhanger from S2, but we all know the ending to the Romulan war anyway.This would have been on par with the alien Nazi cliffhanger from S3.
Um, I think I would say "no thank you" to being saddled with a TNG crossover. TNG got 7 seasons and a bunch of movies. I would tell the Beebs to scrounge up their own $4 million for their TNG thing, and give Coto the last $4 mil of ENT budget for a well-written, original ENT finale, starring our ENT cast in an ENT story.
Have Coto write a story that would be emotionally satisfying to Enterprise fans. (Not TNG fans, not showrunners who like another show better than ENT.)
Wrap up the ongoing storylines in a satisfying way. The most obvious example would be, Trip & T'Pol decide to stick together and figure out the bond thing, and decide to have another baby. And we have a microcosm of the growing Earth/Vulcan relations, with all its joys and conflicts, and a precursor of Sarek and Amanda. (No stupid pointless Trip death, after 4 years of buildup to a lasting relationship.)
Set up the coming Romulan War, or whatever will put Shran on ENT - something we can imagine happened after the show's end, rather than being robbed. (No jewel thievery.
Shran is and always will be a man of honor.) And that means no "6 years later," skipping events and characters we care about and were looking forward to.
This would not be rocket science. Just find writers who value the Enterprise universe and its characters (like Coto, may he rest in peace), and give them, and the loyal viewers, a solid sendoff and an engaging future to imagine, not a kick in the teeth.
My .02
Have Coto write a story that would be emotionally satisfying to Enterprise fans. (Not TNG fans, not showrunners who like another show better than ENT.)
Wrap up the ongoing storylines in a satisfying way. The most obvious example would be, Trip & T'Pol decide to stick together and figure out the bond thing, and decide to have another baby. And we have a microcosm of the growing Earth/Vulcan relations, with all its joys and conflicts, and a precursor of Sarek and Amanda. (No stupid pointless Trip death, after 4 years of buildup to a lasting relationship.)
Set up the coming Romulan War, or whatever will put Shran on ENT - something we can imagine happened after the show's end, rather than being robbed. (No jewel thievery.
Shran is and always will be a man of honor.) And that means no "6 years later," skipping events and characters we care about and were looking forward to.This would not be rocket science. Just find writers who value the Enterprise universe and its characters (like Coto, may he rest in peace), and give them, and the loyal viewers, a solid sendoff and an engaging future to imagine, not a kick in the teeth.
My .02
I think it would've been possible to turn the last episode into a Berman-era finale without making it feel like Enterprise had an episode stolen from them, but it's a tricky thing to do. I remember that Justice League Unlimited actually pulled it off, turning its finale into a satisfying Batman: TAS/Batman Beyond epilogue, but that had the advantage of Batman being a main character. Also the show got a surprise bonus season afterwards.
The ideal solution probably would've been to go the Doctor Who route and make a separate TV movie special event. I'm sure a lot of people would've wanted to see a celebration of the last 20 years of Star Trek, featuring characters from multiple crews teaming up for an adventure... just not like this.
The ideal solution probably would've been to go the Doctor Who route and make a separate TV movie special event. I'm sure a lot of people would've wanted to see a celebration of the last 20 years of Star Trek, featuring characters from multiple crews teaming up for an adventure... just not like this.
Just as bad. If the show is cancelled, give the audience an ending, not a cliffhanger. I'm a die-hard Trekkie, but I also prefer endings over canon. I love that ENT ended with a flash-forward "6 years later" framing device, but doubling that with "but it's also 200 years later in a TNG episode" was a bit much.
Felt too downbeat for me. The promise of more always seems so hopeful, even if nothing happens. It doesn't have to be as desperate as the Farscape Season 4 ending, but something similar. The flash forward felt like the ending of "Stand by me", where you find out his buddy was killed.Just as bad. If the show is cancelled, give the audience an ending, not a cliffhanger. I'm a die-hard Trekkie, but I also prefer endings over canon. I love that ENT ended with a flash-forward "6 years later" framing device, but doubling that with "but it's also 200 years later in a TNG episode" was a bit much.
Sorry, I'm still bitter at Trip's death nearly 20 years later.
Farscape was cancelled after the finale was made, having been told they'd get S5.
The 2-part miniseries was a means to go, "My bad, here's your ending, everyone."
With Enterprise, they knew in advance, so there's no real reason to end on a cliffhanger they know will never be resolved.
To me this was a totally fine concept for an episode... but wasn't best suited as a series finale.
If I was going to tweak the finale, I still move up the time period. I drop the TNG stuff, even though I still maintain it was a cool idea for an episode so it sucks it couldn't get moved earlier into the season.
I'm probably going to make somewhat akin to "All Good Things" while trying to add some kind of resolution to the Temporal Cold War. Archer is sent 6 years into the future to deal with things and stuff, which culminates in basically stopping FutureGuy from doing things. He ends up back in the "present", with full knowledge of the Romulan War and all that but kind of just has to sit on it and let it happen.
Didn't Archer already learn this stuff through Daniels in "Shockwave, Part II" and "Zero Hour?"
I remember reading that if the show came back for S5, they'd have revisited both the TCW and "Future Guy."
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