How Would You Change Nemesis?

[cardinal biggles]

The death of a beloved character doesn't bother me so much, but dammit, actually let them stay dead. Trek's been in love with the reset button ever since Spock asked McCoy to "remember," and just about every death on Trek has had some sort of out ever since. But at least TWOK wasn't so blatantly obvious about it, and it took them a whole other movie to resolve it.

 

[GalaxyX]

^^ I don't think Trek would have survived if Spock had stayed dead. He is crucial to the mythos, so to speak, so much that they got Nimoy to replay his role in the new movie, and just him being there made a huge difference.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I have to admit, I'm conflicted. I don't disagree with you on Spock's resurrection, but then again Spock's death was handled so much better than Data's.

The part of me that is older, more mature, and able to look at these films with a critical eye makes me wish they'd have been able to let there be some real consequences from Kirk's actions to save Spock in TSFS. The ending of TVH is chock full o' reset buttons — Kirk is a captain yet again, and he's got a new, virtually identical Enterprise. The only thing he doesn't have back is David. But as Meat Loaf sang, "two out of three ain't bad" ...so much for all the sacrifices he made in the previous film to honor his friendship.

And yet... I can forgive all of this, because for whatever totally illogical reason, I have a greater sentimental attachment to the TOS crew than the TNG crew. I can look more charitably upon their missteps (TMP) and fuckups (TFF), because there's heart behind it. By the time you get to NEM, TNG (which was already bland at times) was a dessicated corpse stumbling about, and it's hard to find anything loveable about that.

 

[Skywalker]

I actually thought the basic idea of Nemesis was mostly okay, it was just the execution that was lacking. I was perfectly fine with Data dying, as I felt there really wasn't much left to do with the character, and Brent Spiner was getting too old and pudgy to be playing an ageless android, anyway. But I thought the B-4 storyline was incredibly lame, and I hate reset buttons. I also thought it was a mistake to leave seeds for any further TNG movies--it was pretty clear by this point that their time was over. The movie needed to end with a period, not a question mark.

Whoa Nellie's idea to use Shinzon's death to harken back to Picard getting run through during that fight with the Nausicaans is a great one, so I'd start off with a flashback to that day in Jean-Luc's life (and he'd still have hair!). Since the main story is about the duality of man, and nature vs. nurture, it would also serve as a glimpse of Picard before he became the stoic leader of the TNG era.

From there, the movie begins in pretty much the same manner. The Romulan Senate is assassinated, and Shinzon and the Remans launch their coup d'etat. Instead of the Scimitar being a Reman ship, it would be a Romulan prototype hijacked by Shinzon and his group (and it wouldn't be called the Scimitar).

Then we shift to Will and Deanna's wedding in Alaska, which also plays out basically the same way, except Wesley isn't there (or, at least, he's not wearing a Starfleet uniform). The deleted scene between Picard and Data where they share a bottle of Chateau Picard is back in the finished film. Worf is still a Federation Ambassador, not a crewmember of the Enterprise, though he joins the crew on the trip to Betazed to take part in the second wedding ceremony there. The one-way emergency transporter device would also still be introduced by Geordi to Data.

There would be no B-4 story. Instead, the crew is interrupted by a message from Admiral Janeway (hey, I didn't mind the cameo) ordering the Enterprise to lead a task force being sent to Romulus. The Romulans' primary fleet has been destroyed by the Reman rebels, and they're actually requesting Federation assistance. The Federation is getting involved only because they realize the collapse of the Romulan Empire would be disastrous for them. They don't want to risk the vicious and aggressive Remans rising to power--it's basically a "better the devil you know" kind of situation.

Shinzon is played instead by Patrick Stewart, though maybe made-up to look slightly younger (though not much), whose cloned body has aged rapidly and is continuing to deteriorate. When Shinzon learns that Picard is coming, he launches an attack on the Federation fleet, decimating it, and kidnaps Picard so he can obtain his DNA and use it to stabilize his own. After that, he intends to complete his conquest of the Romulan Empire, before turning his eye toward the rest of the galaxy. The Enterprise is the only surviving Starfleet vessel (naturally) and pursues the Scimitar (used here for simplicity's sake) back to Romulus to rescue Picard.

They manage to catch up, and the big end battle begins. A ragtag fleet of surviving Romulan ships arrive to help, but they get their asses kicked pretty quickly. The Enterprise sends an assault team to try and rescue Picard, led by Data and Worf. Most of the team is killed in the fighting, and Worf is severely wounded. The Enterprise beams him back onboard, and (again, naturally), the transporter systems are disabled immediately thereafter. Data and the rest of the team continue making their way toward Picard, but eventually Data is the only surviving member of the team.

Meanwhile, Picard has broken free from his confines and has been fighting to get off of the Scimitar. He and Shinzon end up in the main engineering room, and in the middle of their fight, the Scimitar's warp core is ruptured. They continue to fight, and just when Picard is on the ropes, Data arrives and saves the day, and Shinzon ends up getting run through by some pointy object. He looks down at it and laughs, much like Picard (thanks again, Whoa Nellie!), and then dies.

Realizing that the Scimitar's warp core is about to breach, the Enterprise moves to get clear of the pending explosion. Picard and Data know that they don't have enough time to get to the Scimitar's shuttle bay, and moments before the warp core goes boom, Data sticks the one-way transporter on Picard, which beams him back to the Enterprise. The warp core then detonates, destroying both the Scimitar and Data.

We flash forward a short time later with the Enterprise back at Earth, just finishing up repairs. Data's death has hit everyone hard. Beverly decides it's time for her to move on, and she takes a job at Starfleet Medical. Worf is still the Federation Ambassador to Qo'noS, so he's already on his way out. Geordi decides that he's not ready to leave, and will stay on the Enterprise. Picard seems to be the most shaken-up about what happened, and shocks everyone when he informs them that he's no longer willing to command the Enterprise, and plans to resign his commssion. Will takes over as captain of the Enterprise, and as it heads off to continue its mission, Picard retires to his family's vineyard in La Barre.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

^ That works for me.

Skywalker, I love your sig!

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa nellie

 

[GalaxyX]

^^ Data still dies in that one, so I would have hated it anyway.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I figured that wouldn't please the folks who didn't like Data dying. I was never a huge Data fan anyway, maybe that's why his death never particularly bothered me.

Honestly, my idea isn't actually all that different from the movie we got. Like I said, I thought the basic concept was doable, they just really screwed up the execution. One problem with my revision is that there isn't something for everyone to do. In the actual movie, Troi was able to turn Shinzon's violation back on him (even though I hated that mind rape scene), Riker had that action sequence (even though it was lame), and Geordi helped Data with B-4 and that transporter thingy. In my revision, Will, Deanna, Beverly, and Worf are just pretty much there with no real role to play.

 

[GalaxyX]

Yeah, I figured that wouldn't please the folks who didn't like Data dying. I was never a huge Data fan anyway, maybe that's why his death never particularly bothered me.

Well I understand that. Which is why if I were to write a story, I'd make a good one without having to resort to killing ANY beloved characters.

For example, I couldn't care less about Worf, but he is part of the ensemble and it would still piss me off to watch the character die, even if I'm not particularly fond of him.

 

[Skywalker]

Now, Worf dying, yeah, that probably would have gotten to me.

 

[GalaxyX]

Now, Worf dying, yeah, that probably would have gotten to me.

Exactly. Everyone has a favorite character, and it's a different one for everyone. So why not just NOT KILL any of them?

I don't know why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

 

[Skywalker]

If you can use it to good effect, why not kill someone? Especially if the story being told is intended to be the final one featuring the characters. Trip was probably my favorite character in ENT, but I'm not mad that he was killed; it's the way he died that pissed me off. There's nothing wrong with killing off a character if it's used to develop the other characters in a natural and interesting way. It's when you kill someone off "just to do it" that's wrong.

 

[ParLawGod]

I'm expecting to get flamed for this one, but I would have left Wesley Crusher in the movie. I was never a big fan of him during TNG, but I always like to see the writers bring back characters who have been gone for a while.

 

[DarKush]

I pretty much agree with the majority in getting rid of B-4. I also think that Patrick Stewart should've played Shinzon, no disrespect to Tom Hardy though, I thought Hardy did a fine job with what he was given.

Here's my changes:
-I would initially shift the action away from Romulus to a Romulan colony. After the Dominion War, the Remans rebel. They are aided by captured Dominion weapons, two of which were experimental thalaron radiation and the Scimitar.
-After a devastating thalaron attack on a Romulan world, the Romulans want to come to the bargaining table. The Remans surprisingly ask for the Federation to broker the deal and specifically ask for the Enterprise.
-I would keep the Riker-Troi wedding, but try to add Dr. Pulaski, O'Briens, and Ro Laren to the guest list. I would keep Wesley out of the Starfleet uniform.
-I would keep the Adm. Janeway part, with her sending the Enterprise to Romulus to broker the negotiations. As part of a further Reman 'insult' they request the Klingons also help, and since Ambassador Worf is already attending the wedding he joins the Big E as a representative for Martok.
-The Romulans want to use the Enterprise as a lure to bring out Shinzon. Picard agrees to go with Sela hunting for Shinzon, the one Reman leader who refuses to attend the peace conference and he has stolen the thalaron device. The Enterprise goes on to Romulus as a target for the Shinzon faction.
-The Romulans feel that Picard is the best person to get inside Shinzon's mind, though Sela doesn't agree. However, there's not much she can do. She was behind cloning Shinzon from the DNA taken from Picard during "Unification" and her life depends on capturing or killing Shinzon.
-While Riker, Worf, Troi, etc. are contending with the Romulan and Reman factions Picard is and Sela are hunting Shinzon.
-The climatic battle is over Romulus and the Enterprise is destroyed taking out the Scimitar. This leads to the beginning of peace talks with the Romulans.
-I would probably kill off Data but keep the rest alive. Sela would also die. Picard would retire and become an ambassador, heading up the peace initiative perhaps in memory of his friend. Worf would remain an ambassador. Riker would become captain of the Big E and Geordi would be his XO.

 

[Islander]

I'm expecting to get flamed for this one, but I would have left Wesley Crusher in the movie. I was never a big fan of him during TNG, but I always like to see the writers bring back characters who have been gone for a while.

I guess that would have given them just one more thing to throw at the scimitar before raming it.

 

[RandyS]

Thats what I plan to do, a fan edition of the Nemesis script but I need to know what fellow fans want.

Save Data. The rest of it was fine.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[GalaxyX]

Well, after watching the movie again for the first time in a while (refer to this thread: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=94986 ) I think I've been able to find out what was wrong with the movie.

I posted it in the other thread, but I will post my ideas on how to save the script so it makes more sense:


Of course it would have been nice if Paramount wouldn't have been such dicks and ponied up the cash for a decent action film (So NOW you learn your lesson with Star Trek IX huh assholes?)

It would also have been nice if Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner wouldn't have been such dicks themselves, and accepted a decent cut for their roles. I'm reminded of Terminator 3, and how Arnie put up the 2 million to do that Crane/Firetruck scene out of his own damn pocket!! He cared that much about the movie, what a class act!

But assuming that we had to stick with the same basic budget, and the same basic storyline, with the same actors, I would have done something like this:


- The intro is fine. Still do the whole Romulan Senate attack, but expand on it. Have the Romulans send several of their D'eridex Warbirds to confront the Schimitar. An expanded battle sequence where the Schimitar friggin' pwns several Romulan Warbirds would have shown how bad ass this guy is (but don't show who he is yet).

- The Romulans knowing they are screwed, cave in and ask the Federation for help. The Titan is dispatched, commanded by Captain Riker (and some no name extras). Have the Titan be a Galaxy Class Ship to make us Galaxy Class lovers happy.

- The Titan gets there not knowing what it's up against, but in hopes of some diplomacy. Riker gets there and finds the Schimitar, but doesn't get attacked. Instead, Shinzon demands to speak to Picard. Riker states that Picard is still in the Alpha Quadrant. Shinzon demands to speak to only Picard, or he will attack the Federation starting with the Titan. Riker communicates with Starfleet. Janeway can still do her cameo.

- The Enterprise gets introduced. Picard is still captain. Data is now #1. Geordi is still Chief Engineer. Troi is still with them. They get the urgent message from Starfleet explaining the whole situation. Picard and company maximum warp to Romulus.

- They get there and Shinzon finally introduces himself on the viewscreen. He is NOT a smug cocky punk, but rather this sad looking character. Everyone on both bridges stands in shock at how much this guy looks like Picard. Picard says his typical line "Why have you committed these acts of aggression? And what do you want with me specifically?" "Shinzon goes, "I think Captain, that is pretty obvious to you, would you like to discuss it over dinner?"

- Picard reluctantly accepts despite warnings from Riker and the others.
Shinzon explains the whole thing to Picard, the dilithium mine bit, the Remans, etc etc. and tells Picard that he attacked the Romulans as an act of revenge, but he wishes no harm to the Federation and only wanted to meet Picard.
Picard is torn. He cannot accept that this war criminal is a clone of himself and doesn't know what to do.

- Shinzon starts having the effects of his DNA breaking down.
Beverly finds out why. He is starting to age rapidly and needs Picard's blood to stabilize. Shinzon still links with Troi, but does it in the turbolift and all he gets to do is lay a forced kiss on her before the interruption. Troi discusses it with Picard and Riker. Picard DOES NOT ask her to endure more of it. Instead he realizes that Shinzon may have no redemption. As he thinks this, he gets beamed out by Shinzon.

- The whole thing plays out like in the movie, except Picard is able to escape on his own discreetly, no firefight until he gets to the shuttle.
Shinzon, now looking older, screams at the viewscreen that if Picard does not come back, he will destroy the nearest planet in Federation space, which has a pre warp civilization, and to show he means business jumps to warp to the planet.

- Both the Enterprise and the Titan warp in pursuit, unsure of what to do. On route they are met with several D'eridex Warbirds. The Romulans are offering to help! Picard gladly accepts and feels that 2 Federation Ships and 3-4 Romulan Ships might have a chance at stopping Shinzon.

- They get to the planet to find Shinzon firing at the surface. They waste no time and all 5 ships start blasting away. All 5 ships take a beating, and the Romulan ships start to break down, as well as the Enterprise and the Titan. They manage to drop shields on one side of the Schimitar.

- They sneak some Federation and Romulan forces in (Riker and Data among them) and have their corridor fight with the Remans on their ship. Data manages to free Picard, but Shinzon comes in at the same time with some Remans. Data fights off the Remans, and Shinzon fights Picard. In the fight they jump into the transporter and are beamed down to the planet by accident.

- They have beamed to what looks like a military compound on the planet, with primitive looking dune buggies. Shinzon realizes he doesn't have a communicator, so he jumps into a Dune buggy and speeds away. Picard has no choice but to do the same to follow him. A chase ensues with natives from the planet following them both shooting their machine guns. The Remans track Shinzon and beam him back up to the Schimitar, and the Enterprise does the same with Picard.

- Both back on their ships, Shinzon shows up on the viewscreen, now looking as old as Picard (with Patrick Stewart playing him) and starts pounding on the Enterprise, punches a hole thru the Shields and beams out Deanna. He threatens to finish what he started with her unless Picard beams over again and their forces stand down.

- Shinzon starts groping on Deanna again while she's tied up, and Picard gives up and beams over. Shinzon right away takes him over to the medlab, but on the way starts having convulsions. Picard takes him and tries to save him but it's too late for him. As Shinzon is dying he screams out a self destruct sequence which activates. Riker and Picard both stay, Riker to look for Deanna, and Picard to look for Data.

- Riker finds Deanna and unties her, and they kiss for a moment and then run to the nearest transport pad, and beam out.
Picard can't find Data, and can't disable the self destruct. As he's looking for Data he gets captured by some Remans who are about to kill him when Data shows up and kicks their asses.

- Having only seconds to go, and more Remans on their tail, Data screams at Picard to get to the transporter pad while he is keeping the Remans busy. Picard at first doesn't want to do it, but Data locks him inside the transporter pad and Picard beams away against his will.

- Picard back on the Enterprise struggles to find Data's signature to beam him off the ship, but alas, it's too late, the Schimitar blows up into a million pieces, Data along with it. Everyone has their somber scene, sad at the death of their friend. Troi cries. Riker says his line about how he was whisltling when he first met him. The Romulans say their piece same as the movie (We could be starting a great friendship, blah blah).

Picard and crew go to meet some of the Romulan delegates in the shuttle bay, and alas, Data steps out of a shuttle, alive and well. Troi cries tears of happiness. Riker and Geordi look massively shocked but relieved.

The Romulans explain that they were able to get their sensors back up on time, and scanned the Schimitar seconds before it exploded and rescued their Romulan party that was still alive, finding no human life signs, but detecting Data's Positronic systems, beamed him out in the nick of time. Everyone has a moment of relief, hugs abound all around, even from the Romulans.

- Riker and Troi make an announcement: They have decided, right there that they are going to get married.

- Cut to the Wedding scene. Everyone is there. Picard says his lines about friendship. Riker says a word about how when Troi was captured, the thought of never seeing her again broke him, and how he would never let her get away from him again, etc etc.

- Data can sing his gay song while everyone applauds. Wesley appears. Picard in surprise looks at him and said "Wesley! It's been a long time, how are your adventures treating you?" to which Wesley responds "Well Captain, we can discuss it at length some other time, but I came because I couldn't stay away from such a momentous occasion of my friends joining in marriage" (basically play it up as a nod to TNG fans that know what happened to him, but in a subtle way so the non fan thinks he just beamed up from earth or something)

- Everyone's faces light up, and Wesley sits down to chat with Guinan, Geordi, Worf, and company as the Camera pulls away from them and well see that in the wedding, there are Romulans present as guests, enjoying a good time with the rest of the people there, and the Camera keeps pulling away again to show the Enterprise in Spacedock and the Titan right beside it, and Music and Credits roll.....

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That would've worked.

 

[cybersoldier]

Stewart would had played Shizon with age-reduce cgi
Instead of B-4 it would have been lore, if not Lore and brainwashed Thomas Riker

Would had made a Shizon make a comment to Visroy(sp?) "Once Earth is destory the Romulans will be under our control and Romulus is will be our next target" to empathize that yeah the romulan mistreated them they are using the romulans to for they gain the destruction of the Romulan star empire or their greatest enemy the Federation.

And all the character moment would have stayed in the film or a special director's cut when it came out on dvd

 

[noknowes]

How would you change the last generations last adventure?

Give the audience a lobotomy.