Saying that 1000+ times still doesn’t make it factual…
How would SNW be viewed had it been the FIRST NuTrek series in 2017?
- Thread starter Roald
- Start date
STD is the *only* Trek show I've ever given up on watching. It's just too melodramatic and I was constantly being pulled out of the story and being reminded that "it's just a show." Plus I could never buy Burnham being caption after her mutiny (and knack for making piss-poor decisions).
SNW, I forget it's a show. Time just sails by when it airs and all too soon, it's over for the week. And I really like all of the characters thus far.
SNW, I forget it's a show. Time just sails by when it airs and all too soon, it's over for the week. And I really like all of the characters thus far.
Had we not gotten a far more different visual change in Discovery, I'm sure the SNW changes would've been more criticized (including by me), rather than appreciated for being closer than Discovery. The inclusion of so many legacy characters before we see them in TOS would've been complained about around the same amount, but I think the cast and stories would win us over.
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Hated. People would cry because the ship didn't look exactly like it did in 1966.
In your opinion, sir. I’ve always enjoyed it, from the rocky but engaging first two seasons to the latter two, of which, s4 in particular, beautifully captured the quintessence of Star Trek’s message. It’s been doing something new, experimenting, certainly failing at times—but there’s no Trek series that hasn’t had its bumps. It also benefits from a great cast (weak link is Adira but maybe stronger characterisation would help). And, again, as I said, the success of the “dire” DSC made SNW possible.
I enjoy Discovery but I don’t have the ‘drive’ to watch it like I have done from all of the other live action series. I’m actually only half way through season 4 and I bought the season months ago, but I look forward to watching the last five episodes. The same thing happened to me towards the end of Enterprise. People would probably be able to tell how much I am enjoying Strange New World’s though as I post about it quite enthusiastically like in the good old days with previous series! Maybe the second half of Discovery season four will give me the same level of excitement that Strange New World’s currently is doing? If you don’t see my commenting about it though, it’s probably because it’s not interesting enough for me to talk about or that it is a bit too controversial or political.
It's Slurm rebranded as classic Slurm after the substandard new improved Slurm.
Also to go straight back to the Enterprise with a light hearted wise cracky crew would have been way too much like JJ Trek.
I was one who had wanted DSC to just go new Star Trek and not be tied down to SPOCK. But they didn't listen. Why did Burnham have to be less than a full character in her own right and have to have part of THAT family and connected to TOS? It's insulting to the folks doing the new thing, that tptb didn't think it could stand on its own two feet. So it goes.
They made it kind of a prequel, then it got way more prequel-y w/ Spock hisself and Pike et al. (In the long run I am sure glad.)
Then when they (DSC) finally go off on their own in S3 the show imho got just worse. Not because it wasn't a prequel, it just got sucky to me. For the reasons that have been put forth above and ad nauseum on this bbs.
I didn't hate DSC at first. REALLY wanted to like it, as I actually did, the first halves of both S1 and S2. So not every new thing is hated. Man, I hate that broad brush. Makes me yell Shut Up at my laptop.
I'm pretty sure I would've like SNW in 2017. But you can't replay history. It came after DSC, so it is like a breath of fresh air, and Ahhh, a headache you notice went away. PLUS, it's really written and executed so far. Really dig Peck's Spock. He's funny when being serious, which is hard to do.
LLAP
They made it kind of a prequel, then it got way more prequel-y w/ Spock hisself and Pike et al. (In the long run I am sure glad.)
Then when they (DSC) finally go off on their own in S3 the show imho got just worse. Not because it wasn't a prequel, it just got sucky to me. For the reasons that have been put forth above and ad nauseum on this bbs.
I didn't hate DSC at first. REALLY wanted to like it, as I actually did, the first halves of both S1 and S2. So not every new thing is hated. Man, I hate that broad brush. Makes me yell Shut Up at my laptop.
I'm pretty sure I would've like SNW in 2017. But you can't replay history. It came after DSC, so it is like a breath of fresh air, and Ahhh, a headache you notice went away. PLUS, it's really written and executed so far. Really dig Peck's Spock. He's funny when being serious, which is hard to do.
LLAP
Personally, as someone who ultimately absolutely hated Picard and had mixed, mostly negative feelings on Discovery and ultimately had to drop it halfway into season three:
- I would have been disappointed at the fact it's a prequel, and I would have been highly skeptical of the return of existing characters. This is still the case; I never wanted a prequel and, while I'm not against it, I don't necessarily see a huge amount of potential in exploring existing characters. However, I trusted Peck from his work on Discovery, and Gooding's performance effortlessly won me over with her superb work in the second episode. But yeah, I would have preferred a post-Voyager show with all-new characters and a new ship. I still would, but I understand the real-world chain of events that led to SNW being created as a Pike spinoff series, which makes it easier to swallow that it is what it is.
- Is the Pike-knows-his-future stuff still a plot point in this hypothetical? Because I would have hated that. I hate it now, but I regard it as an unflushable turd of a plot point that the writers have been saddled with by its inclusion in Discovery, and just have to work with as best they can. If Discovery had never existed, and SNW had brought in that plot point on its own, I think my faith in the writers would take a substantial hit.
- I'd probably have been more bothered by the inclusion of the Gorn, and the stretch that their presence puts on continuity. For the record, I don't care about continuity that much and I think it should be bent or even broken if it gets in the way of a good story, but bringing in the Gorn is an odd choice because a) it limits the writers on what they can do, since Arena already lays down so many rules for them and b) it makes me uneasy that the writers can't come up with their own fresh material (though they did in episode two, which eased my concerns). I'd still largely prefer that they find new and original antagonists, but yes, I imagine I'd be a little bit more concerned if Disco and Picard weren't there to make SNW look so favourable by comparison.
Other than that, my reaction would have been about the same - thrilled to have a new Star Trek show after the long absence the franchise has experienced, but also perpetually concerned that it could all go to shit at any moment. My opinion of SNW so far is that it's recognisably Star Trek, a solid addition to the franchise and an enjoyable watch, but it needs to start carving out its own territory and coming up with its own new adventures rather than just regurgitating existing TOS plots. I get the idea of this thread, but honestly, the "finally, they managed to make a show that vaguely resembles Star Trek after five years of on-and-off punishment" buzz wore off in the middle of the first episode for me and I'm watching it as I would any other Star Trek series.
- I would have been disappointed at the fact it's a prequel, and I would have been highly skeptical of the return of existing characters. This is still the case; I never wanted a prequel and, while I'm not against it, I don't necessarily see a huge amount of potential in exploring existing characters. However, I trusted Peck from his work on Discovery, and Gooding's performance effortlessly won me over with her superb work in the second episode. But yeah, I would have preferred a post-Voyager show with all-new characters and a new ship. I still would, but I understand the real-world chain of events that led to SNW being created as a Pike spinoff series, which makes it easier to swallow that it is what it is.
- Is the Pike-knows-his-future stuff still a plot point in this hypothetical? Because I would have hated that. I hate it now, but I regard it as an unflushable turd of a plot point that the writers have been saddled with by its inclusion in Discovery, and just have to work with as best they can. If Discovery had never existed, and SNW had brought in that plot point on its own, I think my faith in the writers would take a substantial hit.
- I'd probably have been more bothered by the inclusion of the Gorn, and the stretch that their presence puts on continuity. For the record, I don't care about continuity that much and I think it should be bent or even broken if it gets in the way of a good story, but bringing in the Gorn is an odd choice because a) it limits the writers on what they can do, since Arena already lays down so many rules for them and b) it makes me uneasy that the writers can't come up with their own fresh material (though they did in episode two, which eased my concerns). I'd still largely prefer that they find new and original antagonists, but yes, I imagine I'd be a little bit more concerned if Disco and Picard weren't there to make SNW look so favourable by comparison.
Other than that, my reaction would have been about the same - thrilled to have a new Star Trek show after the long absence the franchise has experienced, but also perpetually concerned that it could all go to shit at any moment. My opinion of SNW so far is that it's recognisably Star Trek, a solid addition to the franchise and an enjoyable watch, but it needs to start carving out its own territory and coming up with its own new adventures rather than just regurgitating existing TOS plots. I get the idea of this thread, but honestly, the "finally, they managed to make a show that vaguely resembles Star Trek after five years of on-and-off punishment" buzz wore off in the middle of the first episode for me and I'm watching it as I would any other Star Trek series.
“Why are we getting a Pike show, no one cares about Pike”
“Who is this Anson Mount guy, who does he think he is, he won’t even get CLOSE to the magic of Jeffrey Hunter”
“We don’t want another prequel”
“This is going to screw around with TOS canon in unprecedented ways”
“Gene Roddenberry wanted to go forward not backwards”
Etc. Etc. Every new Trek series is hated. Some more, some less. But the hate is always there. No one hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans.
“Who is this Anson Mount guy, who does he think he is, he won’t even get CLOSE to the magic of Jeffrey Hunter”
“We don’t want another prequel”
“This is going to screw around with TOS canon in unprecedented ways”
“Gene Roddenberry wanted to go forward not backwards”
Etc. Etc. Every new Trek series is hated. Some more, some less. But the hate is always there. No one hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans.
Gee, ya think?
Picard crashed and burned, as well. The first four episodes of the first year were decent, a far better run than STD.
"CLEARLY based on Bruce Greenwood's Pike not Jeffrey Hunter's, it's Kelvin Timeline filth masquerading as Prime. He even likes women on his bridge."“Why are we getting a Pike show, no one cares about Pike”
“Who is this Anson Mount guy, who does he think he is, he won’t even get CLOSE to the magic of Jeffrey Hunter”
“We don’t want another prequel”
“This is going to screw around with TOS canon in unprecedented ways”
“Gene Roddenberry wanted to go forward not backwards”
Etc. Etc. Every new Trek series is hated. Some more, some less. But the hate is always there. No one hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans.
Obviously there would have been haters, but probably far fewer than what Disco got. SNW is what a whole lot of fans wanted in the first place.
Sure, they’d nitpick it a lot. But that’s different from hating it.
Sure, they’d nitpick it a lot. But that’s different from hating it.
I see the same voices on twitter that have been bashing the shows and Kurtzman since Discovery still bashing Strange New Worlds.
Most of it I’ve seen is stealth Incel stuff, people finding indirect ways to accuse the show of ‘Wokeness’ because it shows strong females and non-heteros.
But yeah, some people will complain about anything. Just a difference of amount.
I think some people how underestimating how well Discovery seems to be doing for Paramount Plus. Even yesterday, Discovery was the #2 show on the service in the USA, while SNW was further down on the list at #6 (https://flixpatrol.com/top10/paramount-plus/united-states/2022-05-30/)
Wow Discovery must have gotten *really* good if it is still out performing the brand new and amazing Strange New World’s! As previously stated though I got bored of Discovery and stopped watching it half way through series four, though I had every intention to continue my viewing of the season at some point. Tonight I shall put that to right… I will watch episode 6 of Discovery season 4 and feedback my thoughts in the Discovery forum. Hopefully I’ll be invested enough to watch the rest of the season over the next week or so too…
Visual changes are fine to a point. Though I do appreciate them trying to put visual cues from TOS in SNW. But They made the ship MASSIVE. The 1701 Enterprise was not massive except in the alternate Kelvin reality.
So i think that would have been a big complaint as well as all the name dropping. I wanted this show to be about a mostly unfamiliar crew. But we now have Uhura,Chapel Khans great granddaughter, Kirk's brother, lieutenant kyle before he decided he decided to magically change from british..lol.
And soon we will see Kirk himself. I'm guessing McCoy and Scotty will make cameos at least...and maybe Teenage Sulu and Chekhov will take a high school field trip on Pikes Enterprise...lol
They should have did a ship we never heard of before starting on a "normal" 5 year mission. Should have got that with Discovery but we got weirdness with spores and a bunch of other head scratching stuff....oh well....
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