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How would a society with no money work?

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Invoking the magic of replicators to explain an entire economy is naive. Mistaking material items as the sum total of "wealth" is equally naive. Somewhere along the line the brains and the power generation to run the replicators is needed.

Meritocracy is another idea that sounds fine on paper, but expecting everyone to agree on who is superior in a given field is delusional. (And that's where competition comes in.) If anything, such homogenous concepts in TREK are antithetical to the diversity it advocates.

No aspect of STAR TREK should be taken literally.
Why should Star Trek not be taken literally? I am literal and take everything literally.

@PhaserLightShow
 
Neither Robert Picard or Joseph Sisko are business men. They're hobbyists that give stuff away for free.

I don't agree that they're hobbyists. They work. Joseph Sisko work as a cafeteria owner that the responsibility is to tend the people who live around his restaurant. Even if the people don't pay, but Sisko still do the job with full responsibility. That is a job.
 
I don't agree that they're hobbyists. They work. Joseph Sisko work as a cafeteria owner that the responsibility is to tend the people who live around his restaurant. Even if the people don't pay, but Sisko still do the job with full responsibility. That is a job.
Good point, and I agree.
 
But there's no money.
[Of course there is, Picard bought a statue on risa, Quark bought passage back to DS9, Crusher bought cloth in the pilot, Janeway/Tuvok bought a lamp, Scotty bought a boat.

There are lots of times on the show where people are "boughting" things

How do you know?
How else do they hang on to their property, land, building? Buy the supplies to run their profitable businesses.

And without money, how does Worf's adoptive mother travel with Alexander all the way from Earth to where-ever the Enterprise is, to drop off Alexander? And then get back home again.

Without money how did the Dytallix Mining Corporation buy that planet?
 
[Of course there is, Picard bought a statue on risa, Quark bought passage back to DS9, Crusher bought cloth in the pilot, Janeway/Tuvok bought a lamp, Scotty bought a boat.

There are lots of times on the show where people are "boughting" things

How else do they hang on to their property, land, building? Buy the supplies to run their profitable businesses.

And without money, how does Worf's adoptive mother travel with Alexander all the way from Earth to where-ever the Enterprise is, to drop off Alexander? And then get back home again.

Without money how did the Dytallix Mining Corporation buy that planet?

I agree, there is money. But They don't use the money on Earth. Only on Earth that nobody needs money to buy something. But, they still use money outside the Earth. That's fit the context here. When Picard said to the girl in first contact, the context was Earth. And Jake lived on Earth / any Federation Ship that Sisko work, so that's logical when he doesn't know about money.
 
Okay, if that's the case, how do people from Earth interact with the rest of the Federation? Wouldn't this isolated them?
 
Ah, so that's why people work down in the sewers, do shifts in the coffee shops and restaurants and agree to clean the public toilets and streets

For that wonderful sense of achievement it gives them

As they watch Starfleet officers go off and explore space, they smile and think......"I'm so glad I chose to slog my guts out down the sewers while Kirk travels the universe banging sexy green ladies......my accomplishments in sewage maintenance is its own reward"

The restaurants and coffee shops would indeed be just for fun. The sewers? Have you seen the tech in trek? Sewers would basically take care of themselves, any human intervention would not be as unpleasant or dangerous, and they have weather control. And believe me, I know what a nasty job sewer maintenance is.
 
I don't agree that they're hobbyists. They work. Joseph Sisko work as a cafeteria owner that the responsibility is to tend the people who live around his restaurant. Even if the people don't pay, but Sisko still do the job with full responsibility. That is a job.

The point is...they don't need to do it. They choose too. Both end products could be entirely automated, but they work on artisinal products.
You can buy a model enterprise pumped out of a factory or you can buy a model made by a model maker. One is more expensive than the other because it is an artisinal product. Chateau Picard has merit because it is not from replicator, but as a means of making wine, the vineyard is no longer necessary. It is a hobby. Sisko is halfway between a chef hobbyist and a historical reenactment. (Picard's family too tbh...and look at Crushers...)
 
The restaurants and coffee shops would indeed be just for fun. The sewers? Have you seen the tech in trek? Sewers would basically take care of themselves, any human intervention would not be as unpleasant or dangerous, and they have weather control. And believe me, I know what a nasty job sewer maintenance is.

This again.

Travelling to exotic places, where adventures, romances and unknown experiences await you... is fun.

Making Dave a latte in Grimsby... isn't.

And remember, owning a café for them, isn't like it would be for us. It doesn't involve working hard, building anything, taking any risks or owning anything that they work at. It involves making people coffee - that's it. They could literally do a million other more interesting things.

And no, sewers would not just take care of themselves. That's the easy answer (everything just works and everyone is just happy). It's a weak argument especially given the nature of the average human being.
 
So what if the gold pressed latinum is also used as the material of Photon or Quantum Torpedoes core? What if it used as the computer circuit? What if it used for something? Even the gold and diamond are used as the material of something in real world.

Plus, starships need dilithium, and replicator can't make it. If not, why Voyager needs to visit a planet and restock? Why the limited number of photon torpedoes aboard is problematic for them? If replicator can build everything, They won't have any worry about the limited number of Photon Torpedoes.

so the most logical answer is that trading is still happen in 24th century Star Trek. Federation still do trade. Maybe Earth Government still conduct trade with Vulcan, Klingon, Bajor, etc. But the people on Earth can get their daily necessity free, because of the government subsidies.

Dilithium wouldn't be the problem anyway, it would probably be deuterium. Those are topped up from outside in usual starship operations, because voyager isn't carrying the kind of industrial replicators that fabricate chunks of starship. It all makes sense...using energy to make energy is too entropic, it's part of why we never see phasers replicated etc.
Damn near everything in trek can be made out of anything else via replicators of a given size or complexity, the only difficulty is the amount of energy needed to be controlled and actually manipulating the matter. You probably could replicate the titanic in your quarters but it wouldn't fit out of the slot.
 
As a prelude to a post scarcity society, there are now 3--4 countries who are considering basic universal income and one that is adopting it.

RAMA
 
Dilithium wouldn't be the problem anyway, it would probably be deuterium. Those are topped up from outside in usual starship operations, because voyager isn't carrying the kind of industrial replicators that fabricate chunks of starship. It all makes sense...using energy to make energy is too entropic, it's part of why we never see phasers replicated etc.
Damn near everything in trek can be made out of anything else via replicators of a given size or complexity, the only difficulty is the amount of energy needed to be controlled and actually manipulating the matter. You probably could replicate the titanic in your quarters but it wouldn't fit out of the slot.

Then why Voyager won't replicate the industrial replicator? If you said that everything can be made by replicator, and everything can be created from the energy, then they can just build the industrial replicator in the empty space, build a shipyard, etc, out of nowhere. But they didn't. Why?

And where is the energy come from? What is the source of energy?

The point is...they don't need to do it. They choose too. Both end products could be entirely automated, but they work on artisinal products.
You can buy a model enterprise pumped out of a factory or you can buy a model made by a model maker. One is more expensive than the other because it is an artisinal product. Chateau Picard has merit because it is not from replicator, but as a means of making wine, the vineyard is no longer necessary. It is a hobby. Sisko is halfway between a chef hobbyist and a historical reenactment. (Picard's family too tbh...and look at Crushers...)

And why I saw Paris built a house on Earth with human labor? Just watch the first episode of Star Trek Voyager. Is it a hobby? Fine. Then why do they need Human Engineers on a Starship? If everything work / built automatically, then they won't need Mr. La Forge, Chief O'Brien, etc. And I won't see the team engineers enter the airduct to fix something in the TV. Yet, they still need human engineers / technician. Is it a hobby, and not a job?

Now, what is the different between a hobby and a job? A hobby is a hobby, you don't have any dedication for it. It's up to you, when you feel ok, you'll work for it, but when you don't want it, you can just ignore it. There is no obligation to do it.

So let say, I'm a tailor, and I"m doing it as a hobby. And then you come to make a suit at my shop. You need the suit for a wedding party, 5 days later. Well, I'm doing it for a hobby, not a job. So I have no obligation to you. Because you just a man who ask for help, not a customer. When I feel alright, I'll finish your suit. Buuut, I don't have any obligation to finish it for you, because that is not my job, just my hobby. If I feel that fishing is better than making a suit, then I'll leave your cloth untouched and go fishing or play game instead. Or maybe I choose to finish your suit. But why do I care with the time limit that you give to me to finish the suit? 5 days? I feel lazy. When I have the mood, I'll do it, but if not, then I'll rest. It will be lucky if your suit will finish in a month. Or if I even still have the mood to go it until the end. I don't care, go to hell with the suit. I do it for fun, not for you.

It's different if the tailor shop is my job. I have obligation to finish the job that you give to me. Because that's my job. I'll do it with full responsibility, and with professional attitude. Not because I want to, but because I have to. That is what we call a job, not a hobby.

Just imagine if Laforge or Chief O'Brien become an engineers just because of a hobby. LOL, very funny. Some broken engine? the Captain angry? Go to hell, why do they care. it just a hobby, not a job. They'll do it when their mood is right. But if not?
 
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Then why Voyager won't replicate the industrial replicator? If you said that everything can be made by replicator, and everything can be created from the energy, then they can just build the industrial replicator in the empty space, build a shipyard, etc, out of nowhere. But they didn't. Why?

And where is the energy come from? What is the source of energy?



And why I saw Paris built a house on Earth with human labor? Just watch the first episode of Star Trek Voyager. Is it a hobby? Fine. Then why do they need Human Engineers on a Starship? If everything work / built automatically, then they won't need Mr. La Forge, Chief O'Brien, etc. And I won't see the team engineers enter the airduct to fix something in the TV. Yet, they still need human engineers / technician. Is it a hobby, and not a job?

Now, what is the different between a hobby and a job? A hobby is a hobby, you don't have any dedication for it. It's up to you, when you feel ok, you'll work for it, but when you don't want it, you can just ignore it. There is no obligation to do it.

So let say, I'm a tailor, and I"m doing it as a hobby. And then you come to make a suit at my shop. You need the suit for a wedding party, 5 days later. Well, I'm doing it for a hobby, not a job. So I have no obligation to you. Because you just a man who ask for help, not a customer. When I feel alright, I'll finish your suit. Buuut, I don't have any obligation to finish it for you, because that is not my job, just my hobby. If I feel that fishing is better than making a suit, then I'll leave your cloth untouched and go fishing or play game instead. Or maybe I choose to finish your suit. But why do I care with the time limit that you give to me to finish the suit? 5 days? I feel lazy. When I have the mood, I'll do it, but if not, then I'll rest. It will be lucky if your suit will finish in a month. Or if I even still have the mood to go it until the end. I don't care, go to hell with the suit. I do it for fun, not for you.

It's different if the tailor shop is my job. I have obligation to finish the job that you give to me. Because that's my job. I'll do it with full responsibility, and with professional attitude. Not because I want to, but because I have to. That is what we call a job, not a hobby.

Just imagine if Laforge or Chief O'Brien become an engineers just because of a hobby. LOL, very funny. Some broken engine? the Captain angry? Go to hell, why do they care. it just a hobby, not a job. They'll do it when their mood is right. But if not?

And therein lies the problem. Some people have pride enough in their hobbies that they do the best job they can, and if necessary to a deadline for people, even now.
Engineers are to build design and repair things...as we see them doing. They do t just replicate whole starships and slap a sticker on.

Paris was in prison on earth. Housebuilding was probably part of his rehabilitation or a course he was taking.

The answers are pretty much all there on screen, and of course have their roots in some things we do today (or did then...when the episodes were made. At no point did Tom Paris Google up an ehow to make the delta flyer or to put up some shelves)

And the energy? Solar? Geothermal? Matter antimatter reactors and efficient battery systems? All of those are seen in Trek. Energy is basically clean and free.
 
The worry that Janeway and Chakotay had early in season 1about the torpedoes and the inability to make more was owing to the difficulties they were having with the replicators at that time, and not (I believe) that the replicators can never make the components that make up a torpedo. Later they either regain the ability to make torpedoes, or they had someone outside the ship manufacture torpedoes for them. The latter would have involved technology transfer, which Janeway seemed opposed to.

If Earth in the 24th century has a functional economy, I don't see why people would be unable to purchase their needed goods and services. Being dependent on government subsidies as your sole source of basic essentials would surely indicate the existence of a systemic problem.

Government subsidies as a fall back position for select individuals in troubling situations yes, but not for the general population as the everyday norm.

The needed stuff would be provided for free. After that, it's just a matter of getting off your bum and doing something with your life for personal pride and reputation in the eyes of others. Entertainment, food, clothing, housing, education and transport are clearly all basically free to federation citizens.
 
This again.

Travelling to exotic places, where adventures, romances and unknown experiences await you... is fun.

Making Dave a latte in Grimsby... isn't.

And remember, owning a café for them, isn't like it would be for us. It doesn't involve working hard, building anything, taking any risks or owning anything that they work at. It involves making people coffee - that's it. They could literally do a million other more interesting things.

And no, sewers would not just take care of themselves. That's the easy answer (everything just works and everyone is just happy). It's a weak argument especially given the nature of the average human being.

Serving drinks absolutely is fun. Acting in an anachronistic manner is fun (why go out for a coffee, the replicators there)

Rooms on board a ship are self cleaning, sewers would be no problem at all for a society with transporters phasers and force fields. Now should that system break down....well, transporters etc deal with blockages, groups of six men in breathing apparatus aren't needed to go down anymore, no one needs to carry anyone out or wade through stuff. Every last thing needed to run and clean and deal with sewers has already been shown on trek, and that's before we throw transporters and replicators in there, which can literally fill your bath in an instant and then turn it and the mud you just washed off into matter for the replicators.
Throw in weather control, and storm drains and whatnot become redundant, irrigation becomes borderline redundant, but then, we only grow stuff for fun anyway because....replicators.
It's actually not hard to see tbh.
 
Serving drinks absolutely is fun. Acting in an anachronistic manner is fun (why go out for a coffee, the replicators there)

No. This is what people say to justify crappy work in ALL eras. They enjoy working in the fields. They enjoy working down the mines. They enjoy bringing Picard his drinks on Enterprise.

In a society where you can do ANYTHING... no-one would pick making lattes in some backwater town. It's merely convenient to say they would.

Rooms on board a ship are self cleaning, sewers would be no problem at all for a society with transporters phasers and force fields. Now should that system break down....well, transporters etc deal with blockages, groups of six men in breathing apparatus aren't needed to go down anymore, no one needs to carry anyone out or wade through stuff. Every last thing needed to run and clean and deal with sewers has already been shown on trek, and that's before we throw transporters and replicators in there, which can literally fill your bath in an instant and then turn it and the mud you just washed off into matter for the replicators.
Throw in weather control, and storm drains and whatnot become redundant, irrigation becomes borderline redundant, but then, we only grow stuff for fun anyway because....replicators.
It's actually not hard to see tbh.

This is why I lament replictors and their magic beans solutions to all things. Sewers require maintenance and repair that will always involve people at some stage or another. There will always be shit jobs that someone has to do (beyond it being a fun hobby for them). Always.
 
No. This is what people say to justify crappy work in ALL eras. They enjoy working in the fields. They enjoy working down the mines. They enjoy bringing Picard his drinks on Enterprise.

In a society where you can do ANYTHING... no-one would pick making lattes in some backwater town. It's merely convenient to say they would.



This is why I lament replictors and their magic beans solutions to all things. Sewers require maintenance and repair that will always involve people at some stage or another. There will always be shit jobs that someone has to do (beyond it being a fun hobby for them). Always.

Speaking as someone who has served drinks for a living...no...it is fun. Hard work can also be fun.
And as my father worked in the sewers, I can safely say that the technological advances trek showed would make such an unpleasant job safer and almost certainly unnecessary.
 
The society depicted in Trek (especially in TNG) would require a lot of automation. It is a bit shame we never get to see it.

People generally want to feel useful and respected, I don't think it is odd that people would work without pay.
 
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