How 'Tuvix' should have ended

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Captain Jerk, May 7, 2022.

  1. Captain Jerk

    Captain Jerk Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    (Kes pays a visit to Captain Janeway.)

    KES: I don't know how to say goodbye to Neelix and Tuvok. I know this sounds horrible, and I feel so guilty for saying it, and Tuvix doesn't deserve to die, but I want Neelix back. :wah:

    (Kes bursts into tears on Janeway's shoulder. Shortly afterward, Janeway murders Tuvix to bring back Neelix and Tuvok.)

    ***

    NEELIX: Sweeting!! Thank you. Even though Tuvix's horrible memories of being betrayed by you and everybody else aboard this ship of murderers will haunt me until the day I die, for some reason, I still love you.

    KES: I think we need to see other people...

    NEELIX: What?? Are you freaking kidding me right now??

    KES: If it's any consolation, Neelix, it's not me -- it's you. You're just... so boring. I need someone exciting in my life! Someone like, oh I don't know, Tuvix. Now there was a real man...

    NEELIX: :crazy:

    ***

    (Kes pays another visit to Captain Janeway.)

    KES: I don't know how to say goodbye to Tuvix. Neelix on the other hand, that was easy, I just did it 10 minutes ago. I know this sounds horrible, and I feel so guilty for saying it, but Tuvix didn't deserve to die -- Neelix does.

    JANEWAY: Jesus, Kes, I just got through slaughtering Tuvix and now here you are asking me to bring him back?!

    KES: I just realized he's the true love of my life. For the next 2 or 3 weeks, anyhow.

    JANEWAY: What about Tuvok? Neelix is sort of annoying, sure, but, what of Tuvok?

    KES: Oh please, do you really think he's happy being an emotionless freak.

    JANEWAY: I never thought about it that way...

    KES: You sure didn't.

    JANEWAY: Then it's settled. Tomorrow I will re-combine Neelix and Tuvok back into that hideous freak of nature previously known as Tuvix, against their will. Isn't it wonderful how you and I are responsible for the fates of everyone aboard this ship? God I feel good.

    KES: Whatever, I'm getting bored with this conversation, I think I'll go get my nails done.

    ***

    (The next day Tuvix is brought back.)

    TUVIX: Sweeting!! Even though I remember you getting me killed the first time, and now I remember you getting Neelix and Tuvok killed a second time to bring me back, I still love you. I guess the heart wants what the heart wants!

    KES: Yeah, ummm, the thing is, I don't think this relationship is working out. I miss Neelix....:weep:

    TUVIX: :brickwall:
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    1. Funny.
    2. Probably should be in the "Fan Fiction" topic, though.
    3. If you're ever there, read "Tuvix's Revenge". It gives two more similar scenarios.
     
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  3. MarkusTay

    MarkusTay Commander Red Shirt

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    The last part should have been...

    Kes: "Tuvix! I am so glad to see you again! Now do me Vulcan-style, you big hunk of freaky hybrid".
    Tuvix: "C'mere, my little lump of proto-god! Gimme sum sugah!" {Space gypsy walks by, catches Kes' eye}
    Kes: "ummm... you know? This isn't working out. We should just be friends" {kisses cheek} "Oh Mr. Harlequin-romance novel! Wait up! Let me teach you the Ocampan double-wingnut!" {runs off}
    Tuvix: "I'm just so glad she's happy and I am not jealous at all, despite Neelix having a history of such! To the Leola-root mobile!" {dashes off}
     
  4. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It always bugged me that it was never stated if Tuvok and Neelix had any memories of being a single individual.
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Me too. They should have understood each other better after their experience.
     
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  6. J C

    J C Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    They shouldn’t have killed Tuvix, that’s all I feel about it.
     
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  7. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    While not exclusive, I think the general consensus among Trekkies is the same. There are a few episodes, I think, where the writers misjudged the fanbase, and had a lead character do something the fans turned out to oppose. Janeway's actions in "Tuvix" and Archer's decision in "Dear Doctor" are two easy examples.
     
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  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OTOH, The Doctor refusing to perform the procedure to separate them was, for my money, one of his finest moments, and would prove to be one of the few times that any of Our Heroes pushed back against one of Janeway's decisions, and where subsequent events didn't necessarily tilt toward Janeway having been right all along.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Yes. There's a reason why I was careful to quote him in "Tuvix's Revenge"... it was an honorable moment in a very dark ending.
     
  10. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Tuvix was scripted to have no moral solution everyone could live with.

    Not
    bringing Tuvok and Neelix back while they could also would have felt morally objectionable to me. As was killing Tuvix to bring them back. But of course, a choice had to be made anyway (doing nothing also being a choice).
     
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  11. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    That goes without saying. If Janeway had allowed Tuvix to live, she would be reviled by some as having turned her back on Neelix and Tuvok. There's no way to know if that decision would have been more controversial or less than the one she made.
     
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  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The writers room were morally bankrupt Americans who barely survived burrowing though a mountain of cocaine in the 80s. They thought they did it. They found the perfect solution, and then every one was going to put Janeway on their shoulders and carry her around like it's homecoming.

    Voyager does not do complicated (on purpose).
     
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  13. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    That explains a few things about certain decisions made regarding the show.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    70 percent of Hollywood in the 80s didn't know the difference between a good time and killing themselves.

    Voyager's Writers room might have been a chorus of angles, but the numbers say otherwise.
     
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Every STAR TREK show should have a "TUVIX" episode... one where the ending has two options (or three, or more) that ALL are some level of bad. It's why they work so well. As proof, this is still very hotly debated... a quarter century after it first aired.

    And honestly, this is one of the reasons why the current era of shows still isn't as good, overall, as the previous ones. There were a bunch of episodes that had these kind of endings. Some examples...

    A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR
    Symbiosis
    Suddenly Human

    FOR THE UNIFORM
    IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT
    TUVIX
    DEAR DOCTOR
    COGENITOR
    SIMILITUDE
    DAMAGE
     
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  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One of those episodes, the Ceritos, the ship from Lower Decks, returned to the planet were it all went down.
     
  17. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm aware of that, however spoiler policy, as that aired only days ago.

    My point, though, is the kind of lose-lose choices are not as present in the current era overall.
     
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  18. Deks

    Deks Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Could have explored the possibility of making a transporter clone (with Tuvix consent) similar to what happened with Riker and then immediately after the second Tuviix has been made, simultaneously, the procedure is implemented to separate him into Tuvok and Neelix (so the matter stream continues uninterruptedly).

    Its not a great solution because the transporter clone Tuvix would still have to die, but, its the closest to having everyone survive in a sense.

    And then the show would have to deal with Tuvix too.

    Maybe a situation should have been presented where Tuvix was injured, but he was beyond saving. However, due to some previously missed detail, the Doctor says he could save Tuvix by separating him into Tuvok and Neelix as the transporter contains muliple signatures of both of them, but only 1 unreliable one of Tuvix, and that using the hybrid flower could also fix the problem, but at a price of killing Tuvix.

    At that point, Tuvix could have given his consent that this procedure can be done and he would in essence 'survive' in Tuvok and Neelix who would still be alive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
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  19. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Presumably, the circumstances that created the duplicate Will Riker were extremely unique, and impossible to routinely replicate.
     
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  20. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmmmm......no!
    I don't think this is a good solution.
    And Janeway didn't slaughter Tuvix. She corrected the effects of a transporter accident and restored Tuvok and Neelix back to normal.

    However, one of the reasons that I really like tis episode is that it has created more interesting debates than any other Voyager episodes and there is no easy answer for whhat is right or wrong. :techman:
     
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