How many people on Voyager?

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Pretty sure they filmed a scene where the baby was handed back to a family of its own people but the scene was cut.

That was a mistake.

What was a mistake? To have cut the scene or to see the baby handed back to her family?
Anyway, I think that to see Seven trying to take care of a Borg baby with the help of Janeway and The Doctor would have allowed her to accelerate her learning of the humanity and her maternal side would have developed more still.
Another opportunity missed to develop her character.

 

[hux]

A mistake to cut the scene.

Because from now until the end of time, people will start threads called "what happened to the Borg baby." Even a quick captains log mention would have made sense.

 

[Lynx]

The Borg Baby became a valuable member of TSTBT (The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team).

With his Borg nodes and Borg knowledge he could construct almost everything.

 

[TonyLeung82]

The Borg Baby became a valuable member of TSTBT (The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team).

With his Borg nodes and Borg knowledge he could construct almost everything.

You got it wrong. They did not always build a new shuttle after the old was destroyed.
They did this: After destruction of a shuttle, Janeway changed the timeline to this point, the shuttle was still in a good shape and rescued it through time. They did this till end of season 7. So it just seemed so many shuttles were destroyed, but in fact nothing happened to it.
That was the trick. :-)

 

[Lynx]

You got it wrong. They did not always build a new shuttle after the old was destroyed.
They did this: After destruction of a shuttle, Janeway changed the timeline to this point, the shuttle was still in a good shape and rescued it through time. They did this till end of season 7. So it just seemed so many shuttles were destroyed, but in fact nothing happened to it.
That was the trick. :-)

 

[Tracy Trek]

I know. It could have been as simple as a Captain's Log entry.

There is a rather nice fanfic about how that female officer from Equinox (Sorry can't remember the character's name) found redemption and respect by taking care of the Borg Baby.

I believe the fanfic you might be thinking of is Fostering by Jamelia116. It's about Marla Gilmore from the Equinox fostering and then adopting the Borg baby. It is archived on FF.net and AO3.

My joke theory about the shuttles and torpedos is they had instant dehydrated shuttle and torpedo kits. Just add water and grow a new one.

 

[Lynx]

I believe the fanfic you might be thinking of is Fostering by Jamelia116. It's about Marla Gilmore from the Equinox fostering and then adopting the Borg baby. It is archived on FF.net and AO3.

My joke theory about the shuttles and torpedos is they had instant dehydrated shuttle and torpedo kits. Just add water and grow a new one.

Oh dear, another one!

 

[TonyLeung82]

Does anyone recall how many crew were non-human? In Lineage, doesn't B'Elanna say there are 140 humans (possibly a rough estimate). That seems like almost the whole crew compliment.

Let's see, by that time there were 2 Bolians, 2 Vulcans, 3 Bajorans, 1 Talaxian, 1 Brunali, wasn't there another Betazoid that was still alive by that point? Have I missed any? Well other than B'Elanna herself and Naomi. Wasn't there a Vulcan female seen in Repression?

Unfortunately this number 140 is wrong, I dont know about B'Elannas idea to figure out this particular number. With your listing of the non-humans at Voyager you are very accurate.

- Tuvok, Vorik (2 vulcans)
- unknow vulcan female from "Repression" (ex-maqui)
- Golwat, Chell (2 bolians)
- Tabor, Tal Ceres, Gerron (3 Bajorans)
- Neelix (Talaxian)
- Icheb (Brunali)
- B'Elanna (Klingon)
- Naomi
= 12 non-human at all

7of9 is in my eyes a human, so dont count her.
The other betazoid Jarot (Jurot?) seen in "Counterpoint" (and the game Elite Force 2) have to be killed in "Equinox", because at Stardate 53167.9 in "Dragons Teeth" she is not available anymore to help Janeway in this crisis.
There is also a possibility that Gerron (seen just 1 time at stardate 48846.5 in "Learning Curve") is already dead and should be not counted. He could be dead since "Alliances" (3 crewmen dead, 2 of them unknown) or later in "The killing Game" (1 unknown crewman dead). But this is just theoretical, not mentioned anywhere, not canon and so not proven. The only thing I talk about a possible death is, that he wasn't seen anymore after his first appereance.

At this point with B'Elanna at stardate 54452.6 (Lineage) Voyager has an official crew-count of 145. So B'Elanna should say a number like 133 and not 140. Maybe she did not count herself, Naomi and the mysterious vulcan female to it (because she is just a mistake of the authors), then you come to a number of 9 non-humans and a number of 136 humans. This figure she had then rounded up to 140.
This is my only explanation of this numbers I have. Or B'Elanna did not have deep thoughts about it and mentioned the first number which came to her mind.

 

[Tracy Trek]

A lot of crew members were not seen after their initial appearance.

That's what I thought as well, she guessed at the number.

 

[TonyLeung82]

A lot of crew members were not seen after their initial appearance.

That's what I thought as well, she guessed at the number.

I just re-watched the scene where B'Elanna said the number to Tom Paris. I think she did not do math before saying it. Maybe she had in hear mind a crew-count of 150 and just subtracted 10 to have it more easy.

I mean, if you are working in real life in a company with maybe 206 colleagues and people leave the jobs and new people will add, then nobody will have the exact number of people in mind. Everyone would always say: "In my company 200 people are working." Just for an example. And the same happens at Voyager :-)

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

ST: Voyager always refused to consider the consequences of the ship's situation.

1) all casualties and damages can be cured by liberal application of the reset button.

They're the only Federation ship in an uncharted land, which means no resupply, no friendly ports, no possibility of repair or replenish. And yet, on a ship with less than about 150 crew(wo)men, they crash a shuttlecraft in almost every episodes, go through photon torpedoes like water, and have enough redshirt casualties to depopulate the ship three times over.

In fact, all meaningful events that the crew felt throughout would have get a lasting impact on future episodes.

2) they ignored the obvious source of dramatic tension: here you have two ships, full of two sets of people who hate each other (Federation and Maquis), crammed into one ship for survival. Yet they all now seem to love each other! There should have been a lot more friction between the groups.

UNREALISTIC... and STUPID IDEA!

 

[TonyLeung82]

ST: Voyager always refused to consider the consequences of the ship's situation.

1) all casualties and damages can be cured by liberal application of the reset button.

They're the only Federation ship in an uncharted land, which means no resupply, no friendly ports, no possibility of repair or replenish. And yet, on a ship with less than about 150 crew(wo)men, they crash a shuttlecraft in almost every episodes, go through photon torpedoes like water, and have enough redshirt casualties to depopulate the ship three times over.

In fact, all meaningful events that the crew felt throughout would have get a lasting impact on future episodes.

2) they ignored the obvious source of dramatic tension: here you have two ships, full of two sets of people who hate each other (Federation and Maquis), crammed into one ship for survival. Yet they all now seem to love each other! There should have been a lot more friction between the groups.

UNREALISTIC... and STUPID IDEA!

dont be too harsh on the series and judge it as "stupid". Everyone knows, the series itself has mistakes, but it is not like you mentioned it. Why dont you just enjoy Voyager while watching and accept things as fact.
1) you say "all casualties and damages can be cured by liberal application of the reset button".
I answer to this, this is simply wrong. Everyone who is dead or leaves the ship is gone. Seska joins the Kazon and is later dead. She is gone, even comes up in later episodes again. No reset button.
Kes leaves and is gone. Not anymore available in medical station, Paris has to work instead for her sometimes. No reset button.
All other crew-mates, which die are dead and are not coming back. Ok, except Lyndsay Ballard, she is for true coming back :-) So the crew-count is falling, the deepest crew-count will be 143 as mentioned from the borg in "Dark Frontier". Later on, they get supprted from the equinox-crew and the borg-children (only Icheb stays).
I can not see a reset-button here either.
You say "and have enough redshirt casualties to depopulate the ship three times over":
In fact after "Caretaker" till "Endgame" there are 25 "Redshirts" dying on a crew with something like 150 people, they even get supported from the maquis with something above 30 people. I dont see "enough redshirts" here.

And to be honest, we only see the bridge crew on work. From the bridge crew nobody dies, because they are main cast. So there you can not see the impacts when people are dead/missing. There is no impact, because nobody is missing.
All the other stations you rarely see. Sometimes you see engineering crew with B'elanna, i think they have trouble. B'elanna mentions on many times, that she is very busy on work. There you see the impact. All the other stations you never see.

You mention the famous shuttle crafts:
exactly 17 shuttles are destroyed in the series or just gone (given to refugees for example).
in season 1 no shuttle is destroyed, in season 2 = 3, season 3 = 2, season 4 = 4, in season 5 = 6, in season 6 and season 7 always 1 shuttle.
Really much shuttles are destroyed in season 5 with 6 shuttles gone, following with season 4 with 4 shuttles gone. I answer to you, that even 6 shuttles in 1 year isnt impossible to replace. This are in 2 months 1 shuttle to build. So they have 8 weeks time to replace a shuttle, i think this is enough time. For season 4 they have even 12 weeks time.

2) fight between starfleet and maquis:
ok, there was not much fighting between them. But i remember the episodes "Parallax", where maquis-member want to support Chakotay by taking the ship, the episode "Learning curve" to include some members, "Worst Case scenario", "Repression". All episodes about maquis against starfleet.

Maybe you can call Voyager unrealistic, but pls not stupid. We are all here to enjoy Star Trek, and to Star Trek belongs to accept people like they are. I just wish that you accept Voyager as this like it is and not searching everything against it.
I love Voyager and have to defend it. :-)

 

[Lynx]

Voyager wasn't stupid. It was a good series. Unfortunately those in charge screwed up a lot of things which could have been better.

Most of the contradictions can be explained or written around with a little imagination and fantasy!

Which I'm often trying to do.

 

[LJones41]

Voyager wasn't stupid. It was a good series. Unfortunately those in charge screwed up a lot of things which could have been better.

That happened with all of the TREK series, with the exception of "Enterprise", which I thought was more or less crap from the beginning.

The worst offender for me was "Deep Space Nine", which had the potential to be the best. Alas . . . the writing screwed it up in the end, especially between Seasons Five and Seven.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I didn't write down numbers, but over a 3 or 4 episode span at the end of S5, they stated as many different crew numbers, with no battles to account for deaths.

I just happen to be watching episodes in blocks, so it's more obvious from one episode to the next that the number changes by as much as 6 or 7 crew members.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

dont be too harsh on the series and judge it as "stupid". Everyone knows, the series itself has mistakes, but it is not like you mentioned it. Why dont you just enjoy Voyager while watching and accept things as fact.
Maybe you can call Voyager unrealistic, but pls not stupid. We are all here to enjoy Star Trek, and to Star Trek belongs to accept people like they are. I just wish that you accept Voyager as this like it is and not searching everything against it.
I love Voyager and have to defend it. :-)

Alright. It seems that there is a major misunderstanding here. I have never ever written or said that ST: Voyager was stupid or unrealistic. If it had been the case,
1) I wouldn't have "lost" 4 months to watch religiously its 7 seasons (when I don't like a show, I have no regret to give it up in the process. Sometimes, I can return on my decision and give a second chance, like I did with ST: DS9 thanks to some people from here, who have recommended me to give a second chance -> now, I'm at the 2nd season);
2) I wouldn't have joined this group and commented regularly, taking care of longly - what can bristle some of you - my point of view.
3) we can like or dislike stories/scenarios (and even characters) while remaining critical in a positive or negative way.

However, I repeat that some scenarios or situations (not the show in itself!) were silly even if the initial idea was well intentioned (sometimes,the expected result isn't the one that we obtain in the end and it's nice to see some authors recognize it. "Faute avouée, faute à moitié pardonnée" = fault confessed is half redressed). Furthermore, a minimum of realism cannot hurt, even in the field of the science fiction, right?
I just regret that Voyager wasn't entitled to the same special treatment as the others series of the saga (I don't think whether it is a question of ways but rather state of mind), even if certain episodes excellent pieces of work and there are many throughout 7 seasons!
If in saying all that, I pass for someone (too) harsh, ok but sorry, @TonyLeung82, I've never been one whom we told, "look and keep silent" (and if I am not mistaken, the principle of a forum is it not to discuss, to help understanding or to share ideas in the respect of people and the tolerance of their opinions, especially when we disagree with them and to expose a different point of view which is always insteresting?!). Anyway, I'm ready to chat with you about your last post, which is, in the passage, richly illustrated with very precise examples!

And just for information, @TonyLeung82, I can be also critical towards other series, movies, books, plays...! Job conditioning oblige!

 

[TonyLeung82]

I didn't write down numbers, but over a 3 or 4 episode span at the end of S5, they stated as many different crew numbers, with no battles to account for deaths.

I just happen to be watching episodes in blocks, so it's more obvious from one episode to the next that the number changes by as much as 6 or 7 crew members.

In fact season 5 is the season with the most mistakes for mentioning/counting the crew members.
Season 5 begins with an officially crew count of 143 people and end with a crew count of 143 people, so no one is dying in this year.
The wrong crew-numbers begin in episode "In the flesh" with a count of "127 people" (Doctor says: "Two down, 125 to go."), further to "Timeless" (with the clearly rounded figure of 150 people) to the episode "Gravity" (Tuvok mentions 152 people on Voyager), ending with "Someone to Watch Over Me" (Neelix tells the ambassador the crew consists of 146 people).
If you are very creative you can somehow explain the 127 people, what the doctor said. Maybe 16 people were resistent against possible Species 8472 infiltrators and did not need to checked medical.
The number from Tuvok of 152 is for sure just wrong and only a stupid mistake from the authors, which has written the episode.
Neelix wrong number of 146 to the ambassador can be explained, that he used a 1 year old crew-manifest. Like I said, sometimes you have to interpret some figures or just be creative :-) I always say, that at your company with maybe 347 people you never know every new month the exactly numbers of your colleagues, because people are gone or new people will join. And this possibly happened to Neelix to in this case.

 

[TonyLeung82]

Alright. It seems that there is a major misunderstanding here. I have never ever written or said that ST: Voyager was stupid or unrealistic. If it had been the case,
1) I wouldn't have "lost" 4 months to watch religiously its 7 seasons (when I don't like a show, I have no regret to give it up in the process. Sometimes, I can return on my decision and give a second chance, like I did with ST: DS9 thanks to some people from here, who have recommended me to give a second chance -> now, I'm at the 2nd season);
2) I wouldn't have joined this group and commented regularly, taking care of longly - what can bristle some of you - my point of view.
3) we can like or dislike stories/scenarios (and even characters) while remaining critical in a positive or negative way.

However, I repeat that some scenarios or situations (not the show in itself!) were silly even if the initial idea was well intentioned (sometimes,the expected result isn't the one that we obtain in the end and it's nice to see some authors recognize it. "Faute avouée, faute à moitié pardonnée" = fault confessed is half redressed). Furthermore, a minimum of realism cannot hurt, even in the field of the science fiction, right?
I just regret that Voyager wasn't entitled to the same special treatment as the others series of the saga (I don't think whether it is a question of ways but rather state of mind), even if certain episodes excellent pieces of work and there are many throughout 7 seasons!
If in saying all that, I pass for someone (too) harsh, ok but sorry, @TonyLeung82, I've never been one whom we told, "look and keep silent" (and if I am not mistaken, the principle of a forum is it not to discuss, to help understanding or to share ideas in the respect of people and the tolerance of their opinions, especially when we disagree with them and to expose a different point of view which is always insteresting?!). Anyway, I'm ready to chat with you about your last post, which is, in the passage, richly illustrated with very precise examples!

And just for information, @TonyLeung82, I can be also critical towards other series, movies, books, plays...! Job conditioning oblige!

hey, thanks for answering on my post. I didnt want to attack you, just share my opinion :-) Sometimes i am also too harsh and can not express very well my feeling in written words, then people get irritated.
I like it, when you say see it at a different point of view and then it is interesting. I also see it this way. Without other opinions you only see 1 way, but there could be maybe 3 ways, so a good discussion about this topic I am with you. :-)
Expecially when it is about the "mysterious riddle" of the Voyager crew-count.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

hey, thanks for answering on my post. I didnt want to attack you, just share my opinion :-) Sometimes i am also too harsh and can not express very well my feeling in written words, then people get irritated.
I like it, when you say see it at a different point of view and then it is interesting. I also see it this way. Without other opinions you only see 1 way, but there could be maybe 3 ways, so a good discussion about this topic I am with you. :-)
Expecially when it is about the "mysterious riddle" of the Voyager crew-count.

I didn't feel affected or irritated, I reassure you, just saddened that my words were badly interpreted. I like very much ST: Voyager for its acting - at least most - , social issues approached, multiculturalism of the crew with B'Elena, Tuvok, Seven, Kes, Naomie and Neelix), but I continue to think that this series hasn't been dealt fairly, at least with the same involvement and respect on behalf of the team writers/producers as well as UPN, which people occasionally imposed their vision of things, as to make at all costs of the politically correct.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

About the "mysterious riddle" of the Voyager crew count, according to Memory Alpha website, it was stated that when USS Voyager left DS9, in the very beginning of Caretaker (1x01 - pt1), its crew complement was 153. All Starfleet, of course. It is also mentionned in Author, Author (s7x20), that the crew didn't consist more than 146 members (Starfleet ; the Maquis - at least those who remained knowing that they were maybe a dozen from ValJean at first ; 2 ex-Borg drones, ex-members of 5 former Equinox crew members and Neelix, the Talaxian "chef").
What means that Janeway would have lost 9 crew members between s1 and s7.. . .And it's there that, it seems to me that, there is a small problem of discount, knowing that::

- 2 left on their own (Kes and Neelix). I didn't count the Borg children (3) as seeing as they just "visited".
- 8 were killed on screen (Seska, Franck Darwin, Lon Suder, Ahnni Jetal, Lyndsay Ballard, the crewwoman that Janeway tried to reanimate in Scientific Method, Enseign Kaplan and course, Lt Carrey in Friendship One) but I'm pretty sure that there were other victims in the crew further to varied post-Caretaker's attack and nevertheless it weren't deducted.

In any event the vessel continued to work at full capacity and it is very well so!