How many people on Voyager?
- Thread starter Tracy Trek
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Me too!
The String Theory books are great but a bit heavy read. The solution to the "Kes problem" in the books is acceptable for me.
I like "Pathways" with the background stories of the character. However, I must come up with some criticizm as well. The main story is a bit thin and predictable and I must state that I'm not too fond of Jeri Taylor's way to write about the characters. Neelix's story is the best one, Tuvok's story is very good and Kim's is OK but a bit boring in places. The others have some "defects" which disturbs me.
Kes's story is mostly great. She comes out as very determined, curious and brave, just as she should be. But the part where she saves Jabin's life when the Nistrim attack the Ogla despite being mistreated by the Ogla and that she continued to be mistreated by them despite saving Jabin's life is silly. Now why should she actually save jabin in the fisrst place and why should he continue to treat her bad after that? It doesn't make sense.
Chakotay's background story is actually very interesting when it comes to his childhood, why he wanted to go to the Academy and why he joined the Maquis. However, Taylor messes up a lot of things. It was stadet in the series that Chakotay's relationship with his father was not good when he left and that he never saw his father in his vision quest before the events in "Tattoo". In "Pathways", it's stated that he was on good terms with his father and also spoke to him in some visions before the events in "Tattoo" which I thinks ruin the original story from the series. I also wish that Taylor could have given Chakotay a real tribe in the book instead of that "Rubbertree people" rubbish.
Paris's story is also very good except for Taylor messing it up considering his bad relationship to his father. Nowhere is to be found why Paris disliked his father so much. Instead the old man is described as a very jovial person. Come on, it must have been some reason why Tom disliked him so much! You just have to compare with his attitude to this problem in the different episodes. It doesn't make sense.
Unfortunately Taylor seem to have some sort of "if we all are a happy family and have a sing-along together, everything will be fine". Unfortunately, all families are not like this.
The same with Torres's story. Her difficulties to cope with the human kids at the planet she and her mother lived on, due to being half-klingon, her problems at the Academy and the problems with her identity that she had were not because she was half-Klingon among hostile kids or due to her temper or dislike of Starfleet regulations but (now join hands and sing along with me, loud) because of her relationship to her father who left the family when she was a kid and who she rarely spoke about durng her time on Voyager. (Oh, come on Jeri Taylor, not again!).
It's actually the same with the Janeway story in "Mosaic". Kathryn Janeway is presented as a very insecure young woman most of the time with a complicated relationship to her father (oh no, here we go again) who she think doesn't love her as much as her sister. So there must have been a remarcable change in Janeways's personality after becoming captain of a starship some time before Voyager.
However, the main story in this book is great, much better than the one in "Pathways".
As for "Pathways", I can understand that Seven's story wasn't presented because the character was new and there wasn't that much information available to build a story on. But it could have been nice to have a story about The Doctor, how he was created at the Jupiter Station and so.
Yes, I was and that is something I'm not too proud about.weren't you once banned from here because you refused to let people say a bad word about Kes?
anyway I've had a look around your site and it actually scares me how obsessive you are.
She was a pretty forgettable character IMO, but whatever floats your boat
I pushed my luck to hard and got too involved in debates with people I shouldn't have debated with, at least not in the way i did.
But after some years out in the cold I asked to be paroled. Which I fortunately was under the conditions that I would behave, something which I've tried to do since then.
"Obsessive"?
Me? Well, maybe.
But if you look at the Kes Website, you will find a lot of interesting things there which aren't only about Kes, like a timeline, star charts, crew list and such.
And the old boat is still floating, despite all storms it has gone through!
It feels like with Season 5 when Brannon Braga and Kenneth Biller took over, any last threads of inter-episode continuity disappeared, and it was as if the first few seasons had never even happened. Background crew vanished completely (poor Sam Wildman makes her last (current) appearance in "Once Upon a Time" yet her daughter Naomi becomes a semi-regular), and little details like the main crew's lives and backgrounds became muddled.
Which is really sad because Voyager had such great characters and it was also the Star Trek series which would have benefitted from a clear and good-written continuity.
I never understood why Samantha "dissapeared" (except for my theory about her joining The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team) and why Neelix and Seven all of a sudden became her parents.
Not to mention that they brought back Kes only to destroy the character and annoy her fans and that they brought back Carey just to kill him off.
I love the reason being the new writers thought Carey was already dead, which is why he only appeared in "flashback" episodesand that they brought back Carey just to kill him off.
@Lynx, concerning your long post above about Jeri Taylor's Pathways, it sounds like she forgot some of the back stories about the characters she helped create. She was an executive producer, right?
What you said about Tom and his father in the novel. My personal head canon about that and the way it was handled on the show was this: Admiral Paris was a bit obsessed about molding his young son's future at first. But after the admiral was captured and tortured by the Cardassians (described in the book Mosaic), he was suffering from PTSD and he started coming down harder on his son. And this probably coincided with Tom's rebellious teen years, and their relationship started to down-spiral.
Rather than bringing back Jennifer Lien to play Kes in that train wreck of an episode called Fury. There was at least one time they could have had her there in a flashback. The episode where Doc had a breakdown because of having to choose between treating Harry or that young crew-woman. The actual event happened (shown in the flashback) when Kes was still supposed to have been there, right? If the actress wasn't available at the time, there should have at least been an explanation why Tom was helping out in Sickbay before the beginning of season 4 when Kes was still supposed to have been there.
Concerning Sam Wildman, IMO she could have been been used as a semi regular character as a medical assistant for the doctor. I've read a few fan-fics where this is the case. Not that I have anything against Tom as a medic. But it seems a little illogical to have your most experienced medic (and seemingly the only one ever available) also be the the chief pilot as well.
What you said about Tom and his father in the novel. My personal head canon about that and the way it was handled on the show was this: Admiral Paris was a bit obsessed about molding his young son's future at first. But after the admiral was captured and tortured by the Cardassians (described in the book Mosaic), he was suffering from PTSD and he started coming down harder on his son. And this probably coincided with Tom's rebellious teen years, and their relationship started to down-spiral.
Rather than bringing back Jennifer Lien to play Kes in that train wreck of an episode called Fury. There was at least one time they could have had her there in a flashback. The episode where Doc had a breakdown because of having to choose between treating Harry or that young crew-woman. The actual event happened (shown in the flashback) when Kes was still supposed to have been there, right? If the actress wasn't available at the time, there should have at least been an explanation why Tom was helping out in Sickbay before the beginning of season 4 when Kes was still supposed to have been there.
Concerning Sam Wildman, IMO she could have been been used as a semi regular character as a medical assistant for the doctor. I've read a few fan-fics where this is the case. Not that I have anything against Tom as a medic. But it seems a little illogical to have your most experienced medic (and seemingly the only one ever available) also be the the chief pilot as well.
I like the idea of Nurse Wildman, especially as she was apparently a xeno/exobiogist (though Memory Alpha only gives out-of-universe sources for this), which doesn't equal doctor or even nurse, but certainly seems to come closer than someone who minored in biochemistry (Paris)?
Well she was in the science division since she wore a blue uniform. And she was on the bridge and I believe contributing to the discussion of the the space born creatures in the episode Elogium. Actually that's where I thought the idea of her being an exo-biologist came from.
I see your point about Tom and his relationship to his father.
You do have some points in your theory about Tom and his relation to his father.
Personally I do have another theory which can be found in this thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-admiral-paris-was-played-by-two-actors.279424/
and also some more detailed theories on the Kes Website under the link "Voyager Mysteries-and how to solve them".
I totally agree on your suggestions about Kes and Samantha Wildman.
I could never understand why Tom was picked for the medic job. OK, he had some studies and that's possibly more than anyone else on the ship. But he was also the best pilot they had and in an emergency situation he was needed on the bridge because his piloting skills could be the difference between getting away from a dangerous situation or be anihilated.
Not to mention that The Doctor wasn't too happy with him either, as we could see in the episode "Phage":
THE DOCTOR: First they tell me there's no doctor, so I have to be on call twenty four hours a day. And then they tell me there are no nurses so I have no one to assist me.
KES: I thought Tom Paris was assigned to you.
THE DOCTOR: Like I said, no one to assist me.
It also stretches credibility that none of the security personnel or auxiliary personnel like deck hands and logistics/admin people that Voyager has (likely representing something like 20-30% of the original crew) don't have basic field medic training has this probably the second most important role (besides damage control) that non-Command/non-Engineering personnel get in RW navies).
I think one reason they wrote Paris as the Doctor's assistant was because a lot of times it was played for laughs. They did have a bit of a snarky relationship. I was rewatching the episode Author, Author and most of their interaction in that was so funny. Especially when Tom got his revenge on the Doctor for the holonovel.
About 150-155 at the beginning of Voyager's journey and maybe, about 130-135 were fortunate to see the Earth again after a number of years spent in the Delta Quadrant,
Among them, some former members of Maquis* (whom Chakotay, Torres and some others), Seven and The Doctor,
*The Maquis had to represent no more than 20-25 members and still. Their number had to cover the number of initial loss of Starfleet officer after the Kalzon's attack.
About Samantha Wildman, I wonder why she wasn't asked to work with The Doctor, as her new super assistant (=not only a nurse). She was herself a scientist, wasn't she?
I mean that seen the time spent by Tom and Seven with The Doctor, I don't see why Samantha Wildman wouldn't have been able to occupy half of her time to assist in Sickbay and the other half to pursue her researches... .
BTW, how is it possible that we have practically never seen Sam taking care of her daughter. Instead, the little Naomie always finished in Neelix and Seven legs.
-> seriously, if Paris and Torres foud the way to spend their time together, idem for Seven and Borg kids (whose the presence on board, was in my opinion useless > it was enough to see Seven taking care of Naomie to notice her mother's side), how come that Sam is always occupied somewhere else that with her daughter?!
Among them, some former members of Maquis* (whom Chakotay, Torres and some others), Seven and The Doctor,
*The Maquis had to represent no more than 20-25 members and still. Their number had to cover the number of initial loss of Starfleet officer after the Kalzon's attack.
About Samantha Wildman, I wonder why she wasn't asked to work with The Doctor, as her new super assistant (=not only a nurse). She was herself a scientist, wasn't she?
I mean that seen the time spent by Tom and Seven with The Doctor, I don't see why Samantha Wildman wouldn't have been able to occupy half of her time to assist in Sickbay and the other half to pursue her researches... .
BTW, how is it possible that we have practically never seen Sam taking care of her daughter. Instead, the little Naomie always finished in Neelix and Seven legs.
-> seriously, if Paris and Torres foud the way to spend their time together, idem for Seven and Borg kids (whose the presence on board, was in my opinion useless > it was enough to see Seven taking care of Naomie to notice her mother's side), how come that Sam is always occupied somewhere else that with her daughter?!
About 150-155 at the beginning of Voyager's journey and maybe, about 130-135 were fortunate to see the Earth again after a number of years spent in the Delta Quadrant,
Among them, some former members of Maquis* (whom Chakotay, Torres and some others), Seven and The Doctor,
*The Maquis had to represent no more than 20-25 members and still. Their number had to cover the number of initial loss of Starfleet officer after the Kalzon's attack.
About Samantha Wildman, I wonder why she wasn't asked to work with The Doctor, as her new super assistant (=not only a nurse). She was herself a scientist, wasn't she?
I mean that seen the time spent by Tom and Seven with The Doctor, I don't see why Samantha Wildman wouldn't have been able to occupy half of her time to assist in Sickbay and the other half to pursue her researches... .
BTW, how is it possible that we have practically never seen Sam taking care of her daughter. Instead, the little Naomie always finished in Neelix and Seven legs.
-> seriously, if Paris and Torres foud the way to spend their time together, idem for Seven and Borg kids (whose the presence on board, was in my opinion useless > it was enough to see Seven taking care of Naomie to notice her mother's side), how come that Sam is always occupied somewhere else that with her daughter?!
Because there were always a lot of work to do for The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team.
As for the Maquis, I've found 31 Maquis members in my crew list, people in the series and books who were definitely listed as Maquis.
However, there are some questionmarks.
As for my attempt to make a crew list, I've started to poke in it for an update but it will take some time to sort it out
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like already mentioned, there had to be at least 32 maquis (34 if you count Tuok as a spy and Paris ex-maquis). If it would be less, you would never reach the mentioned crew-numbers ("Distant Origin"+"Displaced"= 148 crew), after they "lost over a dozen crew members" in "Caretaker".
What I wanted to say was that the Maquis represented only 31 to 32 members on a crew of about 150-152, which 118-120 were Starfleet crewmen/women.
-> Chakotay, Torres and Cie was very fortunate to fall on Janeway and not on Sisko!
Yesterday, I talked about the Borg children. Does anyone know what became the baby girl (who had just been saved by the Doctor), knowing that the twins and the girl were returned to their parents and Icheb eventually stayed on the vessel, after the latter tried to use him as weapon?
It would have been interesting that she is kept on board and "raised" by Janeway (and indirectly, by Seven for all technical questions), under the control of the Doctor for all which concerned the medical shutter.
-> Chakotay, Torres and Cie was very fortunate to fall on Janeway and not on Sisko!
Yesterday, I talked about the Borg children. Does anyone know what became the baby girl (who had just been saved by the Doctor), knowing that the twins and the girl were returned to their parents and Icheb eventually stayed on the vessel, after the latter tried to use him as weapon?
It would have been interesting that she is kept on board and "raised" by Janeway (and indirectly, by Seven for all technical questions), under the control of the Doctor for all which concerned the medical shutter.
It is sad, that they never mentioned it officially again, what happened to the baby. At least they could say sth about it in one episode, when not seeing it
I know. It could have been as simple as a Captain's Log entry.
There is a rather nice fanfic about how that female officer from Equinox (Sorry can't remember the character's name) found redemption and respect by taking care of the Borg Baby.
