How many people before it becomes wrong?, Star Trek Insurrection
- Thread starter marsh8472
- Start date
No, Picard and his people initially thought the Baku were local primatives, they were wrong on both counts, and their misconception didn't last long.
Tha Sona obvious knew the truth.
The Federation Council knew the truth, because the Admiral did.
Where in the movie did the Baku ever clain sovereignty?
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It was a figure of speech. I was saying that the Baku are the rightful owners of the planet and don't forfeit it on the technicality of not evolving there.
Why are they the "rightful owners"? What about the lower lifeforms that already existed on the planet? What about the possibility that their presence will keep something else from evolving to sapience?
Picard: " They won't begin the procedure while the planet is still inhabited. So our job is to keep the planet inhabited."
For the majority of the movie, the Sona went out of their way to avoid harming the Baku. Starfleet personal not so much.
If the Sona cared nothing for the Baku, they would have began the collection of the particles shortly after the Enterprise left orbit. With the Baku still on the surface.
Admiral Dougherty by this time was isolated and powerless.
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You're calling people Nazis when there is not cause to. How do you feel about the concept of eminent domain in US law? This might be along the lines of what some people are thinking of. And of course, there is the idea within Trek about the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few or the one. I don't believe that makes Mr. Spock a Nazi.
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Hmm. Didn't remember that line. That just muddies it even more. Poor Piller.
Arent the Sona also the rightful owners of the planet.
What if there were a Klingon colony on the other side of the planet. Would these guys be the rightful owners of a planet in Federation space too.
I think let the Sona and Baku battle out their own civil war.Have the Federation set up hospital colonies on the planet out of the way of the Baku and Sona.
They did. The Son'Na lost
Or send containers of the particle to hundreds of thousands of hospitals on planets all across the Federation.
They gave up their right to it when they left, after loosing the civil war.
if there was a Klingon Colony on the planet that was founded in 2066 instead of the Baku, then yes, it would be a Klingon planet and the Federation would never claim it because it would already be part of the Klingon Empire. As it stands the Federation controls the space around the planet but have no claim on the planet itself, except by right of conquest which the Federation claims not to practice.
The Sona didn't "leave," they were forced out. Any claim the Baku might have would be shared by the Sona.
But if the Sona (and therefor the Baku) had a claim of sovereignty over the planet, why would the Sona form a partnership with the Federation?
Oh, that's right. It's a Federation planet.
I don't get how they were at all denying others from the same benefits other than that they didn't publicize (or IIRC initially admit) that the benefits existed. They were willing to directly accept Sona'a who were non-violent or regretful of the recent violence and they didn't indicate they would object to other people settling elsewhere on the planet (but Dougherty claimed no one would want to settle there).
Sharing the benefits at the cost of leaving their homes that they made and making them uninhabitable, especially when there was the alternatives of others coming to the planet and getting the benefits that way, seems a lot more than just giving up an unearned privilege.
But those benefits (the natural way) would take a protracted period of time, in some cases years. And not everyone with a serious medical condition would have that much time. The movie made clear that the particles after collection would have accelerated healing abilities.
And given that there's the option of distributing the collected particles so they could help billions, why should those same billions of people have to travel to the planet and spend years there to receive the benefit of the particles?
Completely disrupt their lives, family life, careers, abandon their homes and communities.
Better the particles came to them.
They may not have indicated they would object to other people settling elsewhere on the planet, but they also didn't suggest it as a compromise, which begs the question of why not. Even if Dougherty had summarily rejected it, the Baku bringing it up would have helped with their portrayal. Instead they enable a situation whereby either the Federation defends them in perpetuity, or eventually someone comes along and does what the Son'a failed to do.
It's the 24th century. If you want a home, replicate one. Or move into a holodeck. It's the Maquis all over again when put that way.
It's the 24th century. If you want a home, replicate one. Or move into a holodeck. It's the Maquis all over again when put that way.
The difference is, eminent domain is a legal procedure which must be carried out according to strict rules. If the government wants to take my house, they don't just barge in and haul me out in chains. They have to establish their right to take my property in the first place, then negotiate with me for a price for said property, and then PAY me the resulting amount. Also they have to help me find a new place to live. So property owners are absolutely compensated under the rules of eminent domain.
I see no indication that anything like this was being applied in the film.
There's no proof at all that this would even work. For all we know, the healing properties of the radiation would only work inside that system.
I'd consider that an acceptable compromise. I doubt there are enough Ba'ku to occupy the entire surface of the planet, after all. There's got to be a fair stretch of land that was not claimed by anyone, and thus be open to anyone who got there first.
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The harvesting was being done to conduct research, they didn't have a clear application for the radiation...it was all on the say so of the Son'Na. Geordi grew new eyes in a few hours, a day at most....unless they were planning to grow back the dead from hairbrush DNA samples, I can't see it taking too long to receive treatment. It's actually kind of shocking that we haven't heard of a Baku hospital in the follow on media since to be honest.
You are squarely placing the federation citizens above the rights of the Baku...a logical extension of this is to place the Borg above the federation. They have a demonstrable need for Human Resources, do they therefore have the right to destroy the federation to further their goals and fight species 8472?
This is the federation, it wouldn't take long to fly to the Baku home world (which it is by virtue of them no longer existing anywhere else) and you could pop critical cases in stasis using various methods shown through the years...the planet is basically a big version of Crushers....duotronic replicator was it? They grew Worf a new spine in one when he was being a suicidal dick and a bad parent (or every other day as it was known when Alexander was aboard the D)
As Picard says, this was about the soul of the federation, and the federation doesn't do stuff that way (last time they got close, you got the Maquis, something Picard seems to regret choosing the wrong side on, and something that also turned out to be the wrong decision.)
In the real world people are moved all the time. If the state wants to build a new road or new airport right thru the house or street you live, you can bet your sweet butt they will deposit the money in your account and do their building. Its called a 'compulsory purchase order' in the real world. One person is not allowed to hold up the infrastructure of society, once society decides their need is greater.
So with Baku it was not their home, they were not indigenous to the place, they only had squatters rights. All those pretty human looking aliens could move to Vermont and fit right in.
So with Baku it was not their home, they were not indigenous to the place, they only had squatters rights. All those pretty human looking aliens could move to Vermont and fit right in.
