How many Enterprise's can there be?

[Praxius]

No ... but SF was already aware of the fact the Narada was massive and highly advanced by comparison.
Besides ... shuttles aren't without sensors, some of them could have recorded certain readings.

And this one attack on the Kelvin probably forced SF to delay construction of the Constitution class so they can integrate superior technology than what was originally planned.
It's entirely possible that SF wasn't using 'cream of the crop' as far as tech goes, and they needed a bigger design in order to incorporate the actual 'cream of the crop' technologies that would prove about a decade or two superior to what the TOS ships had.

This is what I also believe as well.... but to add to that, since the new Timeline Kirk/Enterprise also included with it the history of the NX-01, via Picard and Borg's messing with the timeline previously, that is another reason why the ship looks more advanced then the original.... even the Kelvin was more advanced looking then the original ships of the TOS era, thus it is logical to conclude that the NX-01 Enterprise era had an additional effect on the new Kirk era, on top of the Nero incident when Kirk was born.

My guess is that since the first Nero incident, they did have the plans for the Constitution Class in the works (which would have still been more advanced then the TOS version), but because of the Kelvin getting Skool'd, they probably had to re-work the design a bit more to give it a bit more of a chance against Nero's ship..... thus a bit of a delay.

The STXI ship has two aft-firing torpedo launchers, which gives it one more torpedo launcher than the TMP Enterprise had (or at least had visible).

It's possible that since we never saw it, the TMP Enterprise may be incapable of firing all her phasers at once the way the STXI version does. It would have been useful to lay down blind fire in a similar manner in STVI.

If the game Star Trek: Legacy is anything to go by and if my memory serves, the TMP Enterprise didn't have any aft torpedo bays and could only fire 1-2 phaser banks at a time, depending on which ones were firing. While playing the game, I was annoyed by this, having to turn my ship all the way around again just to fire my photons..... while the ship was nicely designed and looked all purdy, it was pretty crappy for combat compared to just about every other Starship available.

The Kelvin's superiority over the Enterprise, might be less the Kelvin was a superior ship and more she possessed a superior crew.

The Kelvin had a seasoned crew of Starfleet veterans aboard, a sizable portion of the Enterprise's crew were third and forth year cadets. Even commissioned officers like Sulu were shown to be less than knowledgeable about their own panels and duties.

Robau would have replace Sulu, Pike likely had no one to replace him with.

That said, there no indication that the Enterprise or any of the other "modern" Starfleet ships that face Nero in Vulcan orbit were technologically superior in the least from the Kelvin.

True.... They were fresh out of the Academy and from the impression they gave in the movie, many didn't even graduate yet (They needed every able body that could get)

Thus they wouldn't know their ship as well as seasoned officers, they wouldn't know exactly how to re-route power to this or that as well as seasoned officers, or how to repair something as fast, because they're going off of textbook experience, not real life experience..... which allows room for the Enterprise to not last or do as well as the Kelvin.

As an example, look at what happened in Voyager when the Doctor and the new EMH had to try and take the new prototype starship from the hands of the Romulans and didn't know wtf they were doing..... near the end of it, while the ship was one of the most advanced Starfleet had, they almost ended up blowing the thing up.

 

[Captrek]

If the game Star Trek: Legacy is anything to go by and if my memory serves, the TMP Enterprise didn't have any aft torpedo bays and could only fire 1-2 phaser banks at a time, depending on which ones were firing. While playing the game, I was annoyed by this, having to turn my ship all the way around again just to fire my photons..... while the ship was nicely designed and looked all purdy, it was pretty crappy for combat compared to just about every other Starship available.

Attack the Enterprise from behind? Certainly the Turks don’t dream of it.

 

[T'Girl]

This is what I also believe as well.... but to add to that, since the new Timeline Kirk/Enterprise also included with it the history of the NX-01, via Picard and Borg's messing with the timeline previously, that is another reason why the ship looks more advanced then the original.... even the Kelvin was more advanced looking then the original ships of the TOS era, thus it is logical to conclude that the NX-01 Enterprise era had an additional effect on the new Kirk era, on top of the Nero incident when Kirk was born.

Of course it's too early to tell if JJ Abrams will include the NX-01, the events of First Contact, Space Seed, Zephram Cochrane or who knows what, in the reality of his next two movies. It's all up in the air.

My guess is that since the first Nero incident, they did have the plans for the Constitution Class in the works (which would have still been more advanced then the TOS version), but because of the Kelvin getting Skool'd, they probably had to re-work the design a bit more to give it a bit more of a chance against Nero's ship..... thus a bit of a delay.

Which goes back to the point I made in my OP, would Starfleet, while figuring out the Narada's technology, suspend ship building for decades?

It's possible that since we never saw it, the TMP Enterprise may be incapable of firing all her phasers at once the way the STXI version does. It would have been useful to lay down blind fire in a similar manner in STVI.

There's no reason the TMP Enterprise couldn't distribute available phaser power evenly between all the turrets. It's just that Kirk seemed to prefer to concentrate available power into a pair of turrets instead of weakening his shots. If you have a swarm of missiles coming in it might make sense to fire twenty phaser turrets at five percent each - vs - firing just two at fifty percent each.

If the game Star Trek: Legacy is anything to go by and if my memory serves, the TMP Enterprise didn't have any aft torpedo bays and could only fire 1-2 phaser banks at a time, depending on which ones were firing. While playing the game, I was annoyed by this, having to turn my ship all the way around again just to fire my photons..... while the ship was nicely designed and looked all purdy, it was pretty crappy for combat compared to just about every other Starship available.

When a modern naval vessel fires a missile at another ship (or aircraft/ground target), they fire the missile straight up, after a few hundred feet, the missile executes a two hundred gee turn and head towards interception. Why would you have to turn the TMP Enterprise at all toward it target?

Photon Torpedoes in a fight -- no left or right?

 

[Praxius]

...Which goes back to the point I made in my OP, would Starfleet, while figuring out the Narada's technology, suspend ship building for decades?

Because sometimes it can take decades to make it all work out properly without blowing up in your face.

Take the B2 Spirit (Stealth Bomber)... the technology it was built on was from 1979, it's first flight wasn't until 1989, it wasn't introduced into service until 1997 and didn't see action until 1999.... 20 years overall.... now try and imagine how long it'd take to design a concept of a very large Starship, have it halfway designed, then have to go back to the start and redesign it because your original design is inferior for what you need it for.

I could see it taking a couple of decades.

There's no reason the TMP Enterprise couldn't distribute available phaser power evenly between all the turrets. It's just that Kirk seemed to prefer to concentrate available power into a pair of turrets instead of weakening his shots. If you have a swarm of missiles coming in it might make sense to fire twenty phaser turrets at five percent each - vs - firing just two at fifty percent each.

Sure it makes sense, but when in TOS, TNG, DS9 or Voyager did you see anybody use all phaser banks at once as you describe?

Sure you'd see several different phaser banks firing shortly after the other in all sorts of directions, but they were short bursts and usually only one at a time.... it probably took up too many resources in the ship to distribute all the power equally to all phaser banks.... it also would be limited based on how many targets the ships computer could target at one time.

When a modern naval vessel fires a missile at another ship (or aircraft/ground target), they fire the missile straight up, after a few hundred feet, the missile executes a two hundred gee turn and head towards interception. Why would you have to turn the TMP Enterprise at all toward it target?

Damit Jim, I'm an artist not a weapons technologist

But on the game, each photon tube had a limited angle of target lock.... the more straight on and the closer you were to the target, the better the torpedo would lock onto that target.... same with phasers. As an example, if the ship was in front of my ship but above my saucer section, the torpedoes in the bays below the saucer section would not lock because the saucer was in the way...... sure what you say about missiles in ocean based ships is true, but the same principles don't seem to have been applied in the game.

And I personally consider the game mostly cannon since the story line and ships were all accurately designed based on the individual series of Star Trek and they had the real actors who played each captain do voice acting on the game for the stories, from Archer, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, etc.

^ A sample of the lock.... the gray corner markers show the target is locked for phaser fire and the top phaser bank of the saucer section is firing because it's the most direct, forward phaser bank to produce a good shot, meanwhile the bottom phaser bank is out of sight of the target and would have to shoot through the saucer section to hit the target..... the red triangles in the corners note the target is locked for photon torpedoes, but since the red points are not enclosed directly on the target, the lock is not accurate and usually you have less then 50% chance of hitting your target.

I know there's a more detailed and more accurate explanation on how the photon torpedoes lock onto a target, as I remember reading it in my Star Trek TNG Technical Manual I got a few years ago, but it's been a while since I read the book so I can't exactly remember what Rick and Gene were explaining in regards to how it all works.

I just know that when in the game, if the target isn't at a viewable angle to the torpedo bays, you do not have a shot and they will not fire.