How many Enterprise's can there be?

[T'Girl]

In the last movie, instead of the Enterprise being launched in the 2240's, it was launched in 2258. This is supposedly because of the destruction of the USS Kelvin in 2233. But we talking about two very different ships.

Was the prime universe design Enterprise launched in 2245 (approximately) and because of the Kelvin incident, given a different name and registration number? It takes time to plan, design and build a starship. And the prime Enterprise wasn't the first in her class. At the time of the Kelvin incident, the class of starship that came to be known as "The Connies" might have been in the beginning stages of design. Given the USS Constellation's lower registration number and the possibility that Starfleet employs non-sequential system of registration numbers within it's starship classes, the connies might have already been in production when the Kelvin was destroyed.

Certainly in 2233 Starfleet didn't bring it's ship building to a dead halt. However it's entirely possible that the naming and numbering of a ship that wouldn't be built for another 13 years was changed, even if the actual design and construction wasn't.

So what do you think, when the Flagship Enterprise was launched, was the original "physical" Enterpise already sailing among the stars?

 

[Mr Silver]

With the Alternate Timeline, I've always just assumed that with Nero's ship coming back in time. the Federation gained some of its technology (likely from the Klingons) and thus went back to developing their ships based around this new technology (just in case the Klingons and the Romulans were to get the upper hand, hence it took longer for the Constitution Class ships to be developed and constructed

 

[CorporalClegg]

I was expecting some kind of joke about lightbulbs.

 

[BillJ]

In the last movie, instead of the Enterprise being launched in the 2240's, it was launched in 2258. This is supposedly because of the destruction of the USS Kelvin in 2233. But we talking about two very different ships.

Was the prime universe design Enterprise launched in 2245 (approximately) and because of the Kelvin incident, given a different name and registration number? It takes time to plan, design and build a starship. And the prime Enterprise wasn't the first in her class. At the time of the Kelvin incident, the class of starship that came to be known as "The Connies" might have been in the beginning stages of design. Given the USS Constellation's lower registration number and the possibility that Starfleet employs non-sequential system of registration numbers within it's starship classes, the connies might have already been in production when the Kelvin was destroyed.

Certainly in 2233 Starfleet didn't bring it's ship building to a dead halt. However it's entirely possible that the naming and numbering of a ship that wouldn't be built for another 13 years was changed, even if the actual design and construction wasn't.

So what do you think, when the Flagship Enterprise was launched, was the original "physical" Enterpise already sailing among the stars?

Well the promotional material leading up to the film identifies the Enterprise as Constitution Class. So you have to figure in the Abramsverse that the original Connie design was scrapped in favor of the version we see in the film. Issues with adapting technologies for Starfleet use probably delayed the project for a long time. Which is why she didn't launch until 2258.

 

[T'Girl]

Even the name of the class might have changed, without changing the design itself. Seems to me that Starfleet would have continued to produce their existing technology until they figured out the new stuff. Which given the 155 year technologically difference, easily could have taken them decades. Wouldn't they have continued with the existing tech?

The Federation/Starfleet couldn't have known how long the analysis would take, some of the tech was likely still unfathomable when the Flagship Enterprise was launched.

 

[BillJ]

Even the name of the class might have changed, seems to me that Starfleet would have continued to produce their existing technology until they figured out the new stuff. Which given the 155 year difference, easily could have taken decades. Wouldn't they have continued with the existing tech?

But why introduce new classes that would be obsolete in a few years when you already have proven designs in production? I personally don't believe they introduced a new class in the Abramsverse in 2245.

 

[Sector 7]

How many Enterprise's can there be?

Infinite Enterprises in Infinite Combination

 

[Timo]

With the Alternate Timeline, I've always just assumed that with Nero's ship coming back in time. the Federation gained some of its technology

Or then they failed to gain technology they would have gained in the prime universe, which meant they had to build big and stupid ships like the nuE instead of modern and compact ones like the TOS E.

It doesn't seem that the UFP or Starfleet would really have gotten anything out of their encounter with the Narada. How could they? The Narada destroyed the one ship that had any sort of sensor readings on her, and didn't exactly volunteer any interesting mementos to the shuttlecraft survivors, either.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

No ... but SF was already aware of the fact the Narada was massive and highly advanced by comparison.
Besides ... shuttles aren't without sensors, some of them could have recorded certain readings.

And this one attack on the Kelvin probably forced SF to delay construction of the Constitution class so they can integrate superior technology than what was originally planned.
It's entirely possible that SF wasn't using 'cream of the crop' as far as tech goes, and they needed a bigger design in order to incorporate the actual 'cream of the crop' technologies that would prove about a decade or two superior to what the TOS ships had.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The size of the Kelvin (457m according to the bluray), the Kelvin kitbash fleet and the Enterprise (725m according to the bluray and art book) have forced a big rethink in how Starfleet ships are and were in the 23rd century.

The way I see it, in TOS the name "Enterprise" was given to a smaller vessel, the 23rd century equivalent to the Intrepid-class. In the alternate universe it was given to the newest of the 23rd century Galaxy-equivalent starships. Just like the TOS and STXI ships have the similar abilities desite their massive size difference, so do the Intrepid and Galaxy classes in the 24th century.

I say the huge Newton-type battleships, the Mayflower and the rest all existed concurrently to the TOS Enterprise and we just never saw them until now. Novels and videogames have postulated larger ships to the (285m) TOS Enterprise in the 23rd century for decades.

Was the TOS Connie built in the alternate universe? I say no. Was there another Enterprise in the interim? I doubt it.

 

[Timo]

I can't really see Starfleet being motivated to build bigger and badder ships just because they encountered the Narada. When the Narada returns in 2258, nobody seems prepared for her in the slightest. Pike in no way indicates that his new ship has been built specifically to match this enigmatic threat, and indeed the ship doesn't fare any better against that threat than the Kelvin originally did.

Space in Trek is full of dangers way bigger and more serious than the Narada. There's no real reason why Starfleet wouldn't build the best and most powerful ships possible from the get-go, no reason why they would keep some strength "in reserve"!

If anything, the new Enterprise might reflect the complacent nature of modern Starfleet, the lack of balls that Pike critiques. She might in fact be severely underarmed for her size (since we can already see she carries fewer torpedo tubes and has fewer gunports than the other STXI ships, never mind the ships from the Prime timeline movie era!).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

The STXI ship has two aft-firing torpedo launchers, which gives it one more torpedo launcher than the TMP Enterprise had (or at least had visible).

It's possible that since we never saw it, the TMP Enterprise may be incapable of firing all her phasers at once the way the STXI version does. It would have been useful to lay down blind fire in a similar manner in STVI.

I would suggest that TOS's meetings with the Doomsday Machine and other huge threats may have led to the larger Excelsior-class vessels as starfleet's flagships of the era in the same way the Nerada attack led to the larger 1701.

 

[barnaclelapse]

Less than six thousand.

 

[Mr Silver]

With the Alternate Timeline, I've always just assumed that with Nero's ship coming back in time. the Federation gained some of its technology

Or then they failed to gain technology they would have gained in the prime universe, which meant they had to build big and stupid ships like the nuE instead of modern and compact ones like the TOS E.

It doesn't seem that the UFP or Starfleet would really have gotten anything out of their encounter with the Narada. How could they? The Narada destroyed the one ship that had any sort of sensor readings on her, and didn't exactly volunteer any interesting mementos to the shuttlecraft survivors, either.

In the novelisation of "Star Trek" and as featured in deleted scenes, the Klingons have captured the Narada and her crew and Nero and Co are imprisoned on Rura Penthe, as there is no reason that this can't apply (what else would they have done for 20 odd years?) then the Klingons would at least attempt to dismantle some of the Narada's technology, perhaps with undercover Federation operatives "acquiring" some of this technology in order to assure that the Klingons and other powers in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants do not become more technologicaly advanced and thus plan to conquer, leading the Quadrants into War

 

[F. King Daniel]

FWIW, the Klingons tried messing with the captured Nerada in the Nero comic. It either grew back anything removed (all of which was useless when seperated from the ship) or killed the Klingons working on it with all sorts of booby traps. The ship remained in orbit of Rura Penthe.

 

[Mr Silver]

FWIW, the Klingons tried messing with the captured Nerada in the Nero comic. It either grew back anything removed (all of which was useless when seperated from the ship) or killed the Klingons working on it with all sorts of booby traps. The ship remained in orbit of Rura Penthe.

Thats a good point! However what if rather than trying to acquire the technology, they simply tried to understand its functions and then perhaps the Federation built ships with these functions in mind, sort of when Prime Spock gives Scotty the correct equations necessary for "Transwarp Beaming"?

For an In-Universe explanation anyway

 

[Timo]

The STXI ship has two aft-firing torpedo launchers, which gives it one more torpedo launcher than the TMP Enterprise had (or at least had visible).

Where do we see these aft launchers in action? Or in evidence?

It's possible that since we never saw it, the TMP Enterprise may be incapable of firing all her phasers at once the way the STXI version does. It would have been useful to lay down blind fire in a similar manner in STVI.

OTOH, not a single phaser was fired in STVI, so that doesn't tell us much, save for it apparently being a bad idea to fire phasers.

The STXI ship may be a badass combatant, but she fails spectacularly if her designed purpose is to oppose the Narada...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

The two aft photon launchers are on the underside of the secondary hull, a way beneath the shuttlebay. They're most visible when the cadets are boarding the Enterprise via shuttle and when the Mayflower saucer comes into view over Vulcan. They're not seen in action, but they look identical to the single forward launcher.

You don't see the Enterprise fire phasers in STVI (which would have helped much more than it did the Ent-E in Nemesis, since the Bird of Prey can't use cloak and shields at once), but you do in STII. We saw only surgical attacks from Enterprise and Reliant, no more. Same for TOS. It could be that power can only be diverted to fire one or two phasers at once on prime TOS and TMP era ships?

I don't think the alt 1701 was built specifically to fight Nerada, but the Kelvin attack may have led to a shift in Starfleet's design philosophy. Exelsior wasn't built specifically to fight Doomsday Machines either, but I'm sure Starfleet learned something from the encounter.

 

[Lord Garth]

How much time would they have had for scans anyway. How thorough was the Kelvin or any of its shuttles or escape pods able to be? Starfleet may have known it would have to upgrade but would still have very incomplete information.

Or, another thing to consider is that it might have simply been too much of a jump for Starfleet to make to match the Narada because they didn't have the means to do so.

It's like showing someone from 1990 a Blu-Ray player and, a few years later, the best they could come up with to match Blu-Ray was standard DVD because it was too infeasible to leap beyond that or too hard to figure out.

How was Starfleet supposed to know the Narada was going to be on the move again in 2258?

 

[Keith1701]

How many Enterprise's can there be?

Infinite Enterprises in Infinite Combination

Good One!!!!