How do you think "Enterprise" was affected by the movie?

[TrekGuide.com]

You guys are missing the point that once a time traveler goes into the past and changes stuff, it doesn't matter if HIS future changes. His actions still had consequences in THIS timeline.

When Lt. Yar went back on the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise," her future where there was a Klingon-Federation war never happened. But she STILL EXISTED in this timeline, and her daughter continued to exist.

Likewise, Daniels and FutureGuy and the Sphere Builders and the Borg interacted in the past of various "Enterprise" episodes, and those episodes are STILL a part of history in this post-Nero timeline.

Like Lt. Yar in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Daniels and FutureGuy may have come from futures that no longer exist in the future of THIS timeline, but their existence in the past is still a historical fact. The Xindi attack and Suliban incursions and the Broken Bow incident are all still historical facts that Commander Spock can look up in the Starfleet historical records.

In "Voyager's" "Endgame," Admiral Janeway came from a different future that will no longer exist in the "Prime" timeline, but the crew still remembers what she did, and the consequences of her actions are still a part of history. Daniels and FutureGuy and the Borg Queen are no different. Even if their futures cease to be relavant (or even possible) in this new timeline, their appearances on "Enterprise" have still happened.

 

[Jayson]

You guys are missing the point that once a time traveler goes into the past and changes stuff, it doesn't matter if HIS future changes. His actions still had consequences in THIS timeline.

When Lt. Yar went back on the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise," her future where there was a Klingon-Federation war never happened. But she STILL EXISTED in this timeline, and her daughter continued to exist.

Likewise, Daniels and FutureGuy and the Sphere Builders and the Borg interacted in the past of various "Enterprise" episodes, and those episodes are STILL a part of history in this post-Nero timeline.

Like Lt. Yar in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Daniels and FutureGuy may have come from futures that no longer exist in the future of THIS timeline, but their existence in the past is still a historical fact. The Xindi attack and Suliban incursions and the Broken Bow incident are all still historical facts that Commander Spock can look up in the Starfleet historical records.

In "Voyager's" "Endgame," Admiral Janeway came from a different future that will no longer exist in the "Prime" timeline, but the crew still remembers what she did, and the consequences of her actions are still a part of history. Daniels and FutureGuy and the Borg Queen are no different. Even if their futures cease to be relavant (or even possible) in this new timeline, their appearances on "Enterprise" have still happened.

This is possible. It's sort of the "Terminator" aproach to time travel. The future can change somewhat but anyone in the past doesn't cease to exsit. They still remember the lives in a future timeline has been altered.

I'm not certain though if this would be the case with all time travel in Trek because it has been shown you can alter the timeline through time travel. That is the difficult part in this question. Time travel doesn't just exsit in the trekverse but it also can be done in several different ways and can follow different rules. For example I could see "First Contact" being the same in which case Picard and company will return to find themselves in a alterd 24th century. The stuff with Daniels though I think would be erases because the whole point of Temporal Cold War was to try and change the timeline. I guess it means some events affected by time travel could stay the same while others would be changed. Makes you wonder about the Guadian of Forever in the new divergent timeline.

Jason

 

[wojski]

The writers told us - ages ago - to think "Parallels" (TNG).

"Parallels" doesn't say much about temporal incursions.

We may equally assume temporal incursion affects only subsequent multiverses or affects all of them from Big Bang up to the end of time.

We don't know if temporal incursion affects only one universe* or entire multiverse**.

I'm affraid we will need some kind of Sigmund Freud of phisics who will say - guys this is how it works, you can't prove it but belive me it works fine.

* - if that is so, what's the point of Temporal Cold Wars in the first place. Every one picks its own universe, C'est la vie.
** - this would be funny

 

[DarthAkuma]

I think the "Enterprise" era was hugely affected in this new divergent timeline. For the sake of argument let's say the events of "First COntact" still played out the same even without Picard and the Borg involved, in which case the timeline still would look similiar to Prime timeline up until "Enterprise"

With No temporal Cold War involved it means Klanng doesn't crash on Earth because he wouldn't be chased the Suliban. I could see this delaying the lauch of the First Warp 5 mission. I think Starfleet was proably going to go whether the Vulcans wanted to or not which means I could see realtions between Earth and Vulcan not becoming as close as it was in Prime Universe. It also means T'Pol and Phlox never become crewmembers.

Who knows how the chain of events alter from there. Perhaps they become friends with Andorians and they meet the Carddisians and Ferengi and other TNG era races that won't be discovered until much later in the Prime Universe. Personally I don't think Vulcan was quite as important in the new timeline especially since the Vulcan High Council was corrupt and had one guy working for the Romulans. This mght explain why the destruction of their homeworld is basically death sentence ofr their race. Perphaps they become more isolated from the galaxy and thus didn't have as many colonies or whatnot as they would have in the Prime Universe.

With no Vulcans involved that might be why the tech looks different. Perhaps the Vulcans played a huge role in how Starfleet tech looks and operates in the Prime Universe. Hell we don't even know if Vulcan was a Federation member in this new universe. The good news though is Trip doesn't die in this Universe.

Jason

Your premises is wrong because Enterprise takes place BEFORE Nero shows up and destroys the Kelvin and First Contact (the movie) takes place BEFORE Nero goes back in time.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

Think of it this way: "Star Trek XI" is simply the next episode of "Enterprise."

Whenever there was a major change to history in "Enterprise," such as the Suliban attack leading to premature first contact with the Klingons in "Broken Bow," or the Xindi attack on Earth at the direction of the future Sphere-Builders in "The Expanse," the past was changed, but the characters dealt with it and continued with their lives.

Even when future characters were killed, or their plans were thwarted, the "present" characters on the NX-01 still remembered meeting them. Millions of people in Florida are still dead because of the Xindi weapon.

If Nero shows up 100 years later and blows up Vulcan, everyone still remembers the Xindi attack and the Suliban Cabal and Daniels and the Borg, and every other time traveler who has already changed the past.

Altering the past creates a divergent future, not a divergent past. Changes to any timeline are not retroactive. They continue forward from the point of divergence and are permanent.

The only way to undo some change to history is to go back even farther to before the change, and prevent it, like Kirk did in "The City on the Edge of Forever," or like Picard did in "First Contact." (They still remember history being changed, but they went back earlier and prevented the changes.)

Time travel in one episode does not erase the characters' memories of what already happened to them in the previous episode.

Both Ambassador Spock and Commander Spock remember the Xindi attack, and the Suliban Cabal, and first contact with the Klingon in Broken Bow, because that history is all the same for both of them up to Nero's arrival. His arrival does not change anyone's memories of actual events from BEFORE his arrival.

 

[Lt. Trull]

and that canyon kirk drives the last of the V8 engines (F the car) (he destroyed one of the last V8 engines).... that canyon looks like the scar the Xindi left on earth.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

and that canyon kirk drives the last of the V8 engines (F the car) (he destroyed one of the last V8 engines).... that canyon looks like the scar the Xindi left on earth.

The canyon is the site where the shipyard (for the construction of the Enterprise) will be built.

 

[Lt. Trull]

florida.... cape canavral area... makes sense... nasa...

 

[Skywalker]

Um...Kirk lived in Iowa, not Florida.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

I've said this in another thread, Nero altering the past has also altered the future of that timeline meaning the Temporal Cold War will either not happen or will be different meaning that everything that happened in ENT will now have been different. So Nero time travelling caused alteration in the timeline from long before the Kelvin.

You could argue that all those in the temporal cold war are from a different universe and that their universe isn't effected and their meddling only effects the new universe but that unfortunately contradicts all those Star Trek episodes.

The thing is, Abrams trying to make out that this is a new universe and the other original still exists and is simply missing Spock and Nero contradicts all of previous Trek so there really no point trying to bring logic to this mess.

The only way I think we can bring some kind of understanding to all this is to assume that the series of ENT we saw is not what happened in this new universe and everything that Archer did in this new universe is different because this universes future is different because of Nero's meddling.

Yes, this makes the most sense to me. If ENT is built upon FC and FC cannot happen now that the timeline has been altered, then ENT would turn out differently, thus leading to the Kelvin and the timeline at the point the Narada crosses over. None of which affects the prime timeline, of course and allows the alternate reality to reboot every series, including ENT.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Um...Kirk lived in Iowa, not Florida.

Near a quarry

 

[Praetor]

Not at all.

Pretty graph. Hurt brain.

Obviously, ENT will be recast and the production will be redesigned should it ever appear in the nuverse.

 

[miraclefan]

Obviously, ENT will be recast and the production will be redesigned should it ever appear in the nuverse.

I can't belive I'm going to say this, but I've had the same idea myself!

 

[Islander]

Not at all.

A chalenge for you: can you insert The Voyage Home in this graph?

 

[USS Triumphant]

A chalenge for you: can you insert The Voyage Home in this graph?

And "City on the Edge of Forever". And "Yesteryear" (TAS), "Past Tense" (DS9), "Operation:Earth" (TOS), "Future's End" (VOY)...

Oh, and "Parallels" (TNG)

 

[Phily B]

I would've gained a lot more respect for Abrams if he just shat on Enterprise and said "She is the first ship to hold her name, and hopefully not the last" about the 1701.

 

[Doghead]

The reality is that the most popular cast members from previous Trek will be used sparingly if at all in the reboot since it really doesn't need them. However if they do appear, it will be to make vague references to their own time and it won't explain things any clearer.

One point I haven't seen in this thread is the implied but still clearly meant definition of "destiny" in relation to time travel- such as Spock Prime helping destiny along by forming the strong alliance between Spock and Kirk. In other words there is an inertia to events that make things broadly similar in all the "close" parallel universes, including that of Star Trek. For this reason the future, even the future sans Vulcan (which we saw but rarely anyway in the long stretch of episodes) is going to be broadly similar. Unfortunately.

 

[FlapJoy]

Let's consider this: On a particular two part Voyager episode (Futures End) Captain Braxton of the 29th century crashes his "time ship" into 1967 Berkeley CA. Dirty hippie Henry Starling finds the timeship, and steals its technology to found his own company, Chronowerx, which leads to the computer revolution of the nineties. What if actions in the new film alter that history? A whole new book is written, friend. What about this: Archer’s NX 1701 Enterprise is not seen on Picards wall of golden ships, why not? The NASA Space Shuttle Enterprise is up there as is the naval air craft carrier, all predating NX-1701. Did the temporal cold war once erase Archer’s ship from time? Or did Zefram Cochrane decide, before his disappearance, to name the first warp 5 starship “Enterprise” to honor his time jumping meeting with Picard and crew in First Contact? Meaning that Archer’s ship still existed in the original timeline but was named something else and, therefore in that unaltered pre First Contact timeline, does not appear in the Enterprise Hall of Ships. Ponder this: Scotty gives away the formula for transparent aluminum to any San Franciscan with a Mac (“not now Marylyn!!!”) …apparently Chronowerx eliminates Bill Gates influence in history, but not Steve Jobs importance?… Anyway, how does that affect the timeline? Doctor McCoy says to Scotty:“How do you know that he wasn’t the one that invented it?”. That’s playing pretty fast and loose with possibly altering history, eh Bones? Sure that would assume that Edith Keeler didn’t need to die in that “City on the Edge of Forever” since rules stopped being followed regarding time travel (an episode featuring Floyd’s Barber shop BTW, making Andy and Barney canon?). And don’t get me started on Gary Seven… All of which leading to the Quantum Universes we saw in the TNG episode “Parallels”... and on and on. My point is this friend: who knows what Nero and Spock’s influence will be in the new Trekverse? Could lead to a whole other time ship from a whole other far off century comin’ a bopping ‘round the past and muckin’ up sumptin’ else (like making Bussard collectors light up blue instead of red). My only hope, is that from this point on, these new Star Trek movies stay clear of time travel all together and get back to going where no man has gone before, emphasis on the “has gone before” part, catch my drift?

 

[Doghead]

The two biggest impacts on Enterprise are both "meta" impacts.

The mention of Admiral Archer in the film will inevitably boost interest in Enterprise in the longer term, and the violation of previous "continuity" by the film, since it was made "cool" will relax a lot of people about Enterprise. It also makes Enterprise the only reliable Star Trek franchise show for past events.

Which as someone who dislikes Enterprise is a bit heartbreaking but hey- that's just how it is.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Let's consider this: On a particular two part Voyager episode (Futures End) Captain Braxton of the 29th century crashes his "time ship" into 1967 Berkeley CA. Dirty hippie Henry Starling finds the timeship, and steals its technology to found his own company, Chronowerx, which leads to the computer revolution of the nineties. What if actions in the new film alter that history?

They can't, because this film takes place centuries later.

Archer’s NX 1701 Enterprise is not seen on Picards wall of golden ships, why not? The NASA Space Shuttle Enterprise is up there as is the naval air craft carrier, all predating NX-1701.

Not all Enterprises were up on that wall. Remember, there were two different aircraft carriers with that name, but only one of them was shown.

Did the temporal cold war once erase Archer’s ship from time?

No.

Or did Zefram Cochrane decide, before his disappearance, to name the first warp 5 starship “Enterprise” to honor his time jumping meeting with Picard and crew in First Contact?

There's no evidence that I'm aware of which links Cochrane to naming the NX-01 the Enterprise.

Meaning that Archer’s ship still existed in the original timeline but was named something else and, therefore in that unaltered pre First Contact timeline, does not appear in the Enterprise Hall of Ships.

The case can be made that there *was* no unaltered, pre-FC timeline. There's certainly no evidence that there was one.