Um...Kirk lived in Iowa, not Florida.![]()
A better case can be made that "First Contact" actually depicted THREE different timelines:The case can be made that there *was* no unaltered, pre-FC timeline. There's certainly no evidence that there was one.
No, because things that time travelers do in the past become a permanent part of history, regardless of what happens in the time travelers' original timelines.Nero's incursion into the past would affect things (or create branches) from all the events that came after it--including time travel to events that actually cam before it.
Don't be confused by the fact that Timeline 3 was somewhat similar to Timeline 1. That was Picard's goal, after all: to "repair" history. (Just because a body shop fixes your car after a wreck doesn't mean it's the same as a new car, even if it looks the same.)
Let's consider this: On a particular two part Voyager episode (Futures End) Captain Braxton of the 29th century crashes his "time ship" into 1967 Berkeley CA. Dirty hippie Henry Starling finds the timeship, and steals its technology to found his own company, Chronowerx, which leads to the computer revolution of the nineties. What if actions in the new film alter that history?
They can't, because this film takes place centuries later.
SO?
Archer’s NX 1701 Enterprise is not seen on Picards wall of golden ships, why not? The NASA Space Shuttle Enterprise is up there as is the naval air craft carrier, all predating NX-1701.
Not all Enterprises were up on that wall. Remember, there were two different aircraft carriers with that name, but only one of them was shown.
Yes, let's just leave out the first Warp 5 ship ever built too, no historical significance there, right? That's why I'm saying the time line could have changed just an itsy bit, eh? Why not !?!
Or did Zefram Cochrane decide, before his disappearance, to name the first warp 5 starship “Enterprise” to honor his time jumping meeting with Picard and crew in First Contact?
There's no evidence that I'm aware of which links Cochrane to naming the NX-01 the Enterprise.
EXACTLY !!!
Meaning that Archer’s ship still existed in the original timeline but was named something else and, therefore in that unaltered pre First Contact timeline, does not appear in the Enterprise Hall of Ships.
The case can be made that there *was* no unaltered, pre-FC timeline. There's certainly no evidence that there was one.
My only concern is whether the song "All Along The Watchtower" exists in the new timeline.
That would be fine if the caption on the screen didn't read "IOWA" in big giant letters.Not anymore.... Jim's real father george may have been from Iowa...Um...Kirk lived in Iowa, not Florida.![]()
Jim's stepfather is from florida near the Xindi scar...
New universe... New Rules.
No, because we literally saw multiple timelines depicted on the screen:Don't be confused by the fact that Timeline 3 was somewhat similar to Timeline 1. That was Picard's goal, after all: to "repair" history. (Just because a body shop fixes your car after a wreck doesn't mean it's the same as a new car, even if it looks the same.)
When there's time travel involved, you can't use an analogy like that.
You are assuming that there was originally a timeline that didn't include Picard and company following the Borg back in time. We have no evidence that this was the case. I maintain that there was no such timeline, and that the events of ST: First Contact ALWAYS HAPPENED.
You are presuming that "Star Trek: First Contact" and "Regeneration" answered some big question raised by "Q Who." But "Q Who" and "The Best of Both Worlds" established that the Borg had already explored from the Delta Quadrant to the Romulan Neutral Zone, where they had already destroyed several Federation outposts. In later episodes, including TNG's "Descent" and "Voyager's" "Endgame," we saw that the Borg already had transwarp conduits throughout the Galaxy, and they could have attacked Earth at any time. There was no big mystery about "why" they were spreading out across the Galaxy -- that's just what they did.Indeed, as ENT's "Regeneration" showed - or at least heavily implied - it was the leftover drones from ST:FC crashing in the frozen environment, being thawed out, escaping, and sending out a distress signal, that got the Borg interested in Earth to begin with. (The Borg picked up the distress signal and followed it back to Earth. As we know from "Q Who" they were headed in our direction when we first met them...) So if there's a timeline with no FC, then no "Regeneration", and therefore no Borg, which obviously can't be the case.
You are confusing a Predestination Paradox with a Grandfather Paradox.It's an endless loop. A predestination paradox. It always happened. Go ahead, prove that it didn't.![]()
If you are referring to "These Are the Voyages ...," that episode took place entirely in the TNG timeline, as a holodeck simulation of the NX-01. Who's to say that the events of the Temporal Cold War, or the Borg attack on Cochrane, were even a part of history at that point. The NX-01 depicted in that holodeck simulation was slightly different than what we had seen on "Enterprise." Maybe due to 10 years having passed, but maybe it was also a different timeline due to the Temporal Cold War and Borg attack. Or maybe, even after all the Temporal Cold War events creating new timelines, 200 years later in Timeline 17, there would still be an Enterprise-D with a Riker and Troi and Data, experiencing similar events to what happened in the original timeline.Enterprise Timeline- As per To boldly go it is established as part of timeline A
What you are suggesting would be possible only if all acts of time travel in the Temporal Cold War were part of a causality loop, so that future events cause past events which cause the same future events, like in TNG's "Time's Arrow."Timeline A- Prime Federation in effect, also in Prime Federation Future a Temporal War is fought in the past. Temporal war leads to various events - The Klingon Kaang puts the Enterprise into Space. This Temporal war effects the Enterprise, helping to shape it.
Timeline A2- Nero comes into the past, Timeline A Future no longer in effect. Temporal War no longer in effect as the Future Timeline has been erased. Without the Temporal War who knows what effect on the Enterprise. The Sphere builders affected as well.
Possible - Enterprise has an interesting but not exactly legendary run. However Enterprise in Universe A2 is diffenitley altered without the influence from the Temporal War. Temporal War no longer active because the Future beings no longer exist as A2 Future timeline is different. If part of Timeline A then Futurecops would have shown up with a big reset play.
However due to Nutrek being Alternate timeline, Enterprise from Prime universe still unaffected.
If you are referring to "These Are the Voyages ...," that episode took place entirely in the TNG timeline, as a holodeck simulation of the NX-01. Who's to say that the events of the Temporal Cold War, or the Borg attack on Cochrane, were even a part of history at that point. The NX-01 depicted in that holodeck simulation was slightly different than what we had seen on "Enterprise." Maybe due to 10 years having passed, but maybe it was also a different timeline due to the Temporal Cold War and Borg attack. Or maybe, even after all the Temporal Cold War events creating new timelines, 200 years later in Timeline 17, there would still be an Enterprise-D with a Riker and Troi and Data, experiencing similar events to what happened in the original timeline.Enterprise Timeline- As per To boldly go it is established as part of timeline A
What you are suggesting would be possible only if all acts of time travel in the Temporal Cold War were part of a causality loop, so that future events cause past events which cause the same future events, like in TNG's "Time's Arrow."Timeline A- Prime Federation in effect, also in Prime Federation Future a Temporal War is fought in the past. Temporal war leads to various events - The Klingon Kaang puts the Enterprise into Space. This Temporal war effects the Enterprise, helping to shape it.
Timeline A2- Nero comes into the past, Timeline A Future no longer in effect. Temporal War no longer in effect as the Future Timeline has been erased. Without the Temporal War who knows what effect on the Enterprise. The Sphere builders affected as well.
Possible - Enterprise has an interesting but not exactly legendary run. However Enterprise in Universe A2 is diffenitley altered without the influence from the Temporal War. Temporal War no longer active because the Future beings no longer exist as A2 Future timeline is different. If part of Timeline A then Futurecops would have shown up with a big reset play.
However due to Nutrek being Alternate timeline, Enterprise from Prime universe still unaffected.
However, if you think about "Star Trek XI" as just the next episode of "Enterprise," then it does not negate any of the previous 98 episodes -- it just creates yet another change in the timeline, just like the Borg Queen, FutureGuy, Daniels, and the Sphere-builders did before. When FutureGuy changed the past in "Shockwave," that didn't retroactively erase Daniels from the past episode "Cold Front." Likewise, when the Sphere-builders ordered the Xindi to launch the attack on Earth in "The Expanse," that didn't retroactively remove the Borg from the past episode "Regeneration."
So why would Nero appearing from the black hole in a subsequent episode have any effect on anything Daniels, FutureGuy, the Borg Queen, or the Sphere-builders did 100 years earlier?
Besides, even before Nero and Spock went back in time, Admiral Janeway had already changed the timeline in "Endgame," helping the Voyager get home 20 years earlier, so the timeline that Nero came from is not even the same timeline that Daniels, FutureGuy, the Borg Queen or the Sphere-builders came from. (In the original timeline, the Voyager would still have been trapped in the Delta Quadrant when Romulus was destroyed, and Admiral Janeway could not have sent the Enterprise-E to Romulus in "Star Trek: Nemesis," so the last two movies were already in an alternate future before Nero even went back in time.)
Then again, who's to say that Daniels or FutureGuy weren't from the future where Vulcan had been destroyed on Stardate 2258.42? Maybe Nero and Spock STARTED the Temporal Cold War. ...
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