How do Niners feel about Voyager?

[Amaris]

I'm sure that other thread was entirely different in every respect and that you conducted yourself in a mature manner from start to finish. Truly you are an example to us all, a shining light of the forums

I am a bespectacled beacon of light.


J.

 

[Anwar]

Apparently the fringe you think I was a part of was more than a fringe as well, though I do agree that TrekBBS has some really vocal minorities. I never ran into TOS fans who hated the rest of Trek until I came here.

Well I've met people who only really liked the first series (and vice versa, folks who are just fans of the newer shows - or even just DS9), but yeah, I haven't met anyone who loathed TNG. Probably because they weren't as darnedly passionate as a lot of netizens are, I'd suppose.

Yep, it wasn't until I came here and sometimes at spacebattles I ran into those who outright HATED TNG (and usually, the rest of Modern Trek). It seems to be that in order to not be a "throwback" you can only enjoy DS9 as a modern sci-fi show. Nevermind that the other series had just as much stuff relevent to "modern sci-fi".

Heck, you should see the flame wars about what was better: Pre-Crisis DC or Post-Crisis. Especially when it comes to Superman.

 

[Thestral]

Yep, it wasn't until I came here and sometimes at spacebattles I ran into those who outright HATED TNG (and usually, the rest of Modern Trek).

You're using that forum as a measuring point of comparison to "fandom"?

 

[PSGarak]

Here's what I don't understand. So what if some people who like DS9 hate Voyager, Enterprise, and the Next Generation? So what if there are some people who only like the original series? It's not a crime. It's not an atrocity. It's not illegal, immoral, or anything else reprehensible. It's a matter of taste. If a matter of taste is something worth getting one's knickers in a wad over, I would argue that perhaps life isn't interesting enough or busy enough for some people. There are some very real issues with huge impact on people's lives to worry about and defend others against. Taste in TV shows isn't one of them.

 

[Amaris]

Here's what I don't understand. So what if some people who like DS9 hate Voyager, Enterprise, and the Next Generation? So what if there are some people who only like the original series? It's not a crime. It's not an atrocity. It's not illegal, immoral, or anything else reprehensible. It's a matter of taste. If a matter of taste is something worth getting one's knickers in a wad over, I would argue that perhaps life isn't interesting enough or busy enough for some people. There are some very real issues with huge impact on people's lives to worry about and defend others against. Taste in TV shows isn't one of them.

Well stated, PSGarak.

You know, I have my issues with VOY and don't like the show itself, but there are some moments in it that I do like. It's not like I, or most other people, start out wanting to dislike a show, we just end up disliking it. I LOVE DS9. I love every moment of that show, every character, every scene, it's like a home for me. And yet, there are people who can't stand 5 seconds of that show. You know what? I'm fine with that. That doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't. It's a television show (as much as I wish it were real).

J.

 

[PSGarak]

I liked a lot of moments in Voyager. I liked some of the episodes. Overall, the series didn't hold my attention. I don't think people who do like the series are idiots or wrong. They have different taste from me. It's not a big deal.

I love DS9, but I felt that some episodes were weak, as was some of the acting, as were some characters. I've expressed my displeasure with several things about DS9. I have no problem that others think it's perfect or others hate it. That doesn't bother me either. I fail to see how taste in a TV show can be offensive in any way.

 

[Amaris]

I liked a lot of moments in Voyager. I liked some of the episodes. Overall, the series didn't hold my attention. I don't think people who do like the series are idiots or wrong. They have different taste from me. It's not a big deal.

I love DS9, but I felt that some episodes were weak, as was some of the acting, as were some characters. I've expressed my displeasure with several things about DS9. I have no problem that others think it's perfect or others hate it. That doesn't bother me either. I fail to see how taste in a TV show can be offensive in any way.

I think it boils down to wanting to be right. When some people like a television show, they create unrealistic standards by which they judge everyone else. If you don't like the show, then you're just stupid/unsophisticated/elitist/a basher, and anything you say is ignored. This happens in just about everything regarding people, including politics, the idea being that if you don't like it, "you must be wrong, because I like it and I'm right".

J.

 

[PSGarak]

At least with politics, I can see it making more sense. Politics often have a very deep impact on the lives of people living under whoever is in charge. TV shows...not so much.

 

[Amaris]

At least with politics, I can see it making more sense. Politics often have a very deep impact on the lives of people living under whoever is in charge. TV shows...not so much.

Politics are TV shows anymore, anyway. People don't vote for their rights and for their voice, they vote for "the protagonists", whomever they may be. Politics have become a sports game, a television show, nothing but "which side wins", as if a television drama being played out. I believe it is part of the reason why our perceptions have changed as much as they have. TV lets us bring flights of fancy into reality, to a degree, and we get angry when that "reality" is shattered. The same applies to TV.


J.

 

[flemm]

I am a bespectacled beacon of light.


J.

I think it is time I revealed my true identity and purpose to you.

I am a member of a rogue organisation that has existed since the founding of the internet. Our mission: to neutralize all threats to e-civilisation, such as amateurish flame wars, unreadable walls of text and abusive use of smiley icons by any means necessary, unfettered by the constraints of conventional morality and forum etiquette.

Your psychological profile and posting history suggest you would make a promising agent. Will you join us?

 

[Amaris]

I am a bespectacled beacon of light.


J.

I think it is time I revealed my true identity and purpose to you.

I am a member of a rogue organisation that has existence since the founding of the internet. Our mission: to neutralize all threats to e-civilisation, such as amateurish flame wars, unreadable walls of text and abusive use of smiley icons by any means necessary, unfettered by the constraints of conventional morality and forum etiquette.

Your psychological profile and posting history suggest you would make a promising agent. Will you join us?

Can I wear a hat with a feather in it?

J.

 

[Anwar]

Go for a Fedora with a feather in it, for the extra class .

 

[flemm]

Can I wear a hat with a feather in it?

J.

I'm afraid not. All clothing, including undergarments, must be regulation black leather only. We've been trying to get authorization for casual Fridays for a while now, but management is proving to be resistant to the idea, "centuries-old tradition," "we labor in the shadows," blablabla, the usual arguments.

You can probably get away with wearing your Captain Planet boxer shorts every once in a while, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

 

[Anwar]

Huh, wouldn't "laboring in the shadows" work better if you WEREN'T wearing black leather? Stuff squeaks after a while.

 

[TheGodBen]

I am a member of a rogue organisation that has existed since the founding of the internet. Our mission: to neutralize all threats to e-civilisation, such as amateurish flame wars, unreadable walls of text and abusive use of smiley icons by any means necessary, unfettered by the constraints of conventional morality and forum etiquette.

Do you also neutralise those who type everything in lower case? If so I would consider donating half my fortune to your organisation.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I honestly can't recall if I posted in this already, but I will say that metaphorically speaking DS9 kicked Voyager in the crotch and took its lunch money for a drunken weekend in Mexico.

 

[flemm]

Do you also neutralise those who type everything in lower case? If so I would consider donating half my fortune to your organisation.

We are genetically engineering a virus to deal with this very problem as we speak. Non-lethal, of course, you just go to bed with cold symptoms and wake up caring about about grammar, sentence structure and capitalization.

 

[Count Zero]

Why are Niners supposed to be the big Voyager haters? It's only an impression, but it seems to me that Enterprise fans actually criticise Voyager more, if only in a "everyone slags off Enterprise, but I think it was better than Voyager" way. Not that there's anything wrong with a bit of slagging off.

I've made similar observations on this board (sadly, I don't know any Enterprise fans in real life). It seems that loving Voyager and loving Enterprise exclude each other to some extent. I've heard ENT fans say pretty often, "ENT had its problems but at least it wasn't as horrible as Voyager". Funnily, Voyager fans have said the same thing with the shows reversed.
I'm an Enterprise fan and I gave up on Voyager in season 5 or 6 of its original run, so I fit the cliché really well. I think there's an explanation for this phenomenon, though. VOY and ENT are very different shows and therefore appeal to different groups of people.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I thought VOY was the weakest Trek series. I had hope for it when it began but it frequently disappointed. Now with about a decade out I can rewatch it and appreciate it for what it *is* and not what I thought or hoped it might be.

I never was concerned about its lack of arc storytelling, its absence of recurring characters, its supply of torpedoes etc. I would have been perfectly fine with the show had it been "TNG in the Delta Quadrant" but it wasn't nearly as well written or consistent as TNG was.

I wasn't crazy about most of the characters--Kim, Chakotay, Neelix, Paris, Tuvok. I loved Kate Mulgrew but Janeway was written inconsistently. The show had too much fluff. I mean here these people are in the middle of this unexplored region and instead of being filled with new fresh ideas and aliens we get holodeck episodes like Fair Haven.

It isn't a bad show and seeing the wasteland of tv shows that has been put out over the last decade it is even entertaining.

 

[TheGodBen]

We are genetically engineering a virus to deal with this very problem as we speak. Non-lethal, of course, you just go to bed with cold symptoms and wake up caring about about grammar, sentence structure and capitalization.

Hmm, non lethal? I'm afraid I only donate to research projects which have at least a 60% kill ratio.