How characters could have been handled better?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by valkyrie013, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So, question, was watching The Catwalk, and had a thought. Mayweather mentioned weathering out a storm with his family, then latter in the episode he was just. in the background mostly.
    So the question is, I was thinking that this episode could have been good to showcase Mayweather, and delve in to his character more. maybe make him the lead in it, taking command where he had been through these, and helping save the ship instead of being the bus driver again.
    So. What other episodes could have featured the characters better, and how? Doesn't have to be Mayweather, could be Hoshi, even Archer.
    Kind of like a what you can change thread, but specific to characters and there development, and not back of the house stuff, etc.
     
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  2. Sgt_G

    Sgt_G Commodore Commodore

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    A different actor to play Archer.......
     
  3. Khan Jr

    Khan Jr Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I think another MACO would have been worth developing. We have three women of some significance...

    * Money - often seen being a silent badass
    * Cole - gets involved with the senior crew for one episode but is never seen before or since
    * McKenzie - Mayweather's possible spouse, named by Hayes as his successor, neither of which is followed up on

    Maybe conflate the bits from those three into one character with a meatier arc. Seeing her in a leadership role in season 4 would in particular fill a gap, since after the deaths of Hayes and Hawkins, we don't have a 'face' to represent the squad.
     
  4. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Some background on the characters might have helped. Was Enterprise Archer's first command? They show makes it seem like he was a test pilot they just handed the keys to because his father designed the warp engine.
     
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  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Like the actor, but not the way he was written. The only way to really fix Archer would be to significantly change him, change the concept.
    Maybe that's is what happen. Archer got the Enterprise over other more experienced Starfleet captains owing more to Archer's connections than his abilities. Archer initially had strong negative positions on Vulcans, if this was common among Starfleet senior leadership, that might have helped Archer. He was a part of "the club."

    Tucker and Archer were good friends for years, how much did this play into Tucker being assigned as chief engineer? Tucker also initially had strong negative positions on Vulcans.

    If we had seen more of Hernandez, it could have been interesting if she too recieved her command through favoritism. Her previous sexual affair with Archer resulting in a recommodation that gave her a inside track.
     
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  6. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Red Shirt

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    Decide beforehand what they're going to do with the characters. Mayweather's most interesting episode was the one where the evil automated repair station with B'Elanna Torres's voice snatched him. The one where he visited his family's freighter at least gave him something to do. But his character was an interesting idea: he was the veteran spaceman. No one else really had a clue.
     
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  7. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    As originally conceived, the character of Mayweather was likely going to be more integral to the series in general as the most experienced space traveller on the ship. That role as "the one who knows things" pretty much went to T'Pol, reducing Mayweather to generally just the ship's chauffeur. Had they stuck to their guns with the character, any episode in which Archer needed a serious talking to likely would have involved Mayweather rather than T'Pol.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The characters could have been handled better had they not been just a bunch of token stereotypes. Archer was the token American everyman, Trip was the token American southerner, T'Pol was the token Vulcan, Hoshi was the token Asian, Reed was the token Brit, Mayweather was the token black guy, and Phlox was the token 'weird alien.' Granted, the performances of some of the actors rose above those stereotypes, particularly Connor Trinneer and John Billingsley, but in the end, the whole concept could have been handled better.
     
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  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    I must admit I dislike the way Bakula played Archer, and I would very much like to change the actor. Though the bigger problem with Archer is the writing. He was just written to be a self-important dumbass (whether intentionally or not). I have never seen Bakula in anything else, so I can't tell whether he could have done better with better writing.

    But I think that's a problem with the characters in general. I think they tried to get away from the "perfect humans" of 90s Trek and went too far in other direction. Making Archer and Tripp total jerks, Hoshi afraid of everything (at least early on)...
    To me it reaches the point that when I try to re-watch the series I wonder how these people were chosen as the first representatives of humanity?
    And let's not get into how hostile and snobbish T'Pol is.

    So my basic solution, without going too much into details, would be to make everybody act a little bit more professional. Get rid of Archer's raging hate for Vulcans. Get rid of the dog (it just doesn't seem sensible to bring a pet on a ship where all resources should be tight as it is, this isn't the 24th century!). Get rid of Phlox (as much as I love alien characters, in this case I feel a human doctor would have made more sense) etc. etc. etc.
     
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  10. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Red Shirt

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    I have to agree about Porthos. Cats and children sort of worked on Enterprise (the kids on DS9 and Voyager were better handled). But a dog on a military exploration vessel didn't really work.

    On the other hand, Porthos was thoroughly cute.
     
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Of course Porthos was cute, and if he had been on the Enterprise D or even DS9 I wouldn't complain, but with the very first vessel of its kind it just didn't make sense. Because of the theme there should have been nothing non-essential at all on the NX.
    And as awesome as dogs are they just aren't essential for the NX's mission.
     
  12. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Red Shirt

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    Relax, Orph. I did agree with you.
     
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  13. Takeboo

    Takeboo Takeru - Space Police Premium Member

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    He absolutely could have done better, I was a huge fan of Quantum Leap growing up and he was so likable and heroic on that show, always trying to make things right. I was excited when he got cast on Enterprise until I saw it, Archer is an unlikable, arrogant dumbass who I wanted dead (along with Trip and Reed) after the first few episodes and that was definitely a writing issue.
     
  14. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    A friend tried to get me into Quantum Leap once, I couldn't get into how 80s the show is.
    But I agree that Archer would have been better as a proper hero. I also seem to recall that behind the scenes the actors on Enterprise got quite well along with each other, so it's unfortunate they made them so hostile and flat towards each other on screen. Particularly because it wasn't the enjoyable kind of conflict, imho, it was just like Charmed, a bunch of miserable, self important people being bitchy towards each other.
    It's really kind of a bummer how they failed at so many places on Enterprise, because the design work was really good; the uniforms, the aliens (most of the time, the Suliban looked kinda "ehhh")
     
  15. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    B&B were trying to clone Seven of Nine.

    The difference between T'Pol and Seven: Seven was a commander who had suffered a fall. She possessed real power ("Survival Instinct").

    T'Pol just came off as a b$#@h.
     
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  16. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah Seven had a point to how she acted, she had spent most of her live as a drone, she had to get used to things. And even so she never did nonsense like eating breadsticks with a fork and knife or informing everybody that they smell repulsive to her (where did either of those things even come from? Didn't Spock and his father enjoy the finger food at the Babel Conference?)
     
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  17. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mayweather had so much potential, he had been further than any of the humans onboard, he could've had more moments of insight, knowing similar situations even having more knowledge than T'Pol in some instances. Make him a story teller, regaling his shipmates with tales of what he'd seen and done--make Reed even admire his experience and adventurous spirit--also give him and Hoshi more of a sibling dynamic, with some banter and poking fun at one another. He could've been the Jadzia of the show, a mix of experience and adventure.
     
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  18. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    I would have found it cool if they had interacted more with Boomers, freighter crews, space ports, mining colonies, space pirates and other stuff like that. A bit more of the less sophisticated and less comfortable and safe parts of the galaxy and it could have given Mayweather more to do as he could have been more at home there than his Earth-Human crewmates or T'Pol.
    In those places/situations May weather would have known the rules, customs, slang. Like Miller in the Expanse
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  19. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Red Shirt

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    That's a good idea, actually, and it would have been a condition endemic to 22nd century pre-Federation humanity. In other words, stories only Enterprise could tell. Like "Cogenitor" and "Dear Doctor", both of which explained why the Prime Directive, inconvenient as it is, was necessary.
     
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  20. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What's more, everything she had known for the previous eighteen years of her life had just been forcibly taken away from her.

    So, yeah ... She's going to be in somewhat of a sour mood. :rolleyes: