How Can Religion Get Portrayed Like DS9 Again?

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Just as Lazarus from the Bible is said to be Flint, why can't it go in the opposite direction and say that some miraculous event from the Bible did in fact happen the way the Bible said it did?

With instances like these, characters can choose to believe his claim, or not, just as you would believe anything else or not, despite evidence that appears to point in a particular direction.

 

[Kor]

Just as Lazarus from the Bible is said to be Flint, why can't it go in the opposite direction and say that some miraculous event from the Bible did in fact happen the way the Bible said it did?

With instances like these, characters can choose to believe his claim, or not, just as you would believe anything else or not, despite evidence that appears to point in a particular direction.

There would have to be some extraterrestrial or technobabble/scientific explanation, which wouldn't sit well with some viewers. TOS was able to do something like this with ancient Greek mythology in "Who Mourns for Adonais," as that is an extinct belief system instead of something still current.

Kor

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

There would have to be some extraterrestrial or technobabble/scientific explanation, which wouldn't sit well with some viewers.

Not necessarily. A character who somehow knows that it happened that way but doesn't have a sciencey way of explaining it can confirm it. Others can speculate, but ultimately are unable to determine who's right.

I would like to see characters walk out of a meeting room to strains of a hymn or modern (late 20th/ early 21st century) worship song, even if they're not main characters.

 

[Greg Cox]

I would like to see characters walk out of a meeting room to strains of a hymn or modern (late 20th/ early 21st century) worship song, even if they're not main characters.

But I thought "worship words" were just a garbled version of the Declaration of Independence?

E plebnista!

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Only on Omega IV.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not necessarily. A character who somehow knows that it happened that way but doesn't have a sciencey way of explaining it can confirm it. Others can speculate, but ultimately are unable to determine who's right.

I would like to see characters walk out of a meeting room to strains of a hymn or modern (late 20th/ early 21st century) worship song, even if they're not main characters.

This is Star Trek. The whole point of encountering a seemingly unexplainable phenomena is to find a sciencey way to explain it.

 

[Tenacity]

and say that some miraculous event from the Bible did in fact happen the way the Bible said it did?

There would have to be some extraterrestrial or technobabble/scientific explanation

That would be "the thing," the crew would realize that there wasn't scientific explanation for the event.

I would like to see characters walk out of a meeting room to strains of a hymn or modern (late 20th/ early 21st century) worship song, even if they're not main characters.

I envision the opening scene of a episode, the Captain walking out into a corridor as part of a crowd, she briefly thanks another officer for a wonderful sermon, gets a comm call asking her to come to the bridge.

One of those scenes that TNG did so well, starting a episode with a slice of life aboard the ship.

 

[fireproof78]

This is Star Trek. The whole point of encountering a seemingly unexplainable phenomena is to find a sciencey way to explain it.

Not always. TOS didn't explain Apollo or the Organanians. They just were alien beings. Similarly with the Q and the Prophets and such.

Some things just remain unexplained.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not always. TOS didn't explain Apollo or the Organanians. They just were alien beings. Similarly with the Q and the Prophets and such.

Some things just remain unexplained.

Alien being is the explanation.
Apollo is an alien who visited Earth and was worshiped as a god. His abilities are mechanical and biological.
The Organians are a species who evolved beyond physical forms and exist as pure energy.
Q is an extra dimensional alien from the Q Continuum
Likewise the Prophets are extra dimensional aliens who live in the Bajoran Wormhole

 

[Kemaiku]

They were all also shown to be mortal or be able to be rendered mortal very easily. So by definition, not dieties in the sense of the mythical ones people believe in now.

 

[fireproof78]

Alien being is the explanation.
Apollo is an alien who visited Earth and was worshiped as a god. His abilities are mechanical and biological.
The Organians are a species who evolved beyond physical forms and exist as pure energy.
Q is an extra dimensional alien from the Q Continuum
Likewise the Prophets are extra dimensional aliens who live in the Bajoran Wormhole

I can live with an "alien" explanation. No worse than "evolved to a higher plan of existence," that Stargate loved so much.
It's an explanation so far as it goes "they are not like us-beyond comprehension" typology. It's not a full scientific explanation like Vaal in TOS' "The Apple" or Adra in "Devil's Due."

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can live with an "alien" explanation. No worse than "evolved to a higher plan of existence," that Stargate loved so much.
It's an explanation so far as it goes "they are not like us-beyond comprehension" typology. It's not a full scientific explanation like Vaal in TOS' "The Apple" or Adra in "Devil's Due."

Of course there are different stories that serve different purposes. In "Errand of Mercy" our heroes and villains spend most of the episode thinking the Organians are weak willed simpletons who don't know what's good for them. While in "Devi's Due" our heroes spend the episode trying to prove Adra is a scam-aritist.
The explanation for the Organians comes right from the Organians.
Our heroes use their sciency equipment to suss out Apollo. Much in the same way they found out Vaal.
IIRC, the Prophets never claim to be divine.
Q has, but it was more of a way to take a dig at Picard.

 

[BillJ]

TOS didn't explain Apollo or the Organanians.

Yeah, they did. Pretty explicitly in each episode. You might want to go back and review them.

 

[Praetorian]

I hope it doesn't! I agree with Braga that Star Trek is an atheist mythology (or, at least, should strive to be so).

Even in DS9, where people of faith were shown to be good people (and bad, as well), they were all misguided since their gods were simply aliens who didn't even care about them until late in the series (the orbs were meant for "other lifeforms", not "corporeal entities").

Then we have the Founders, who genetically modified people to worship them as gods!

Also, Klingon spirituality, including ritual homicide, was criticized.

DS9 painted a bleak picture of religion, even if it respected (some) religious people, showing that faith, even if misguided, could be an important part of a person's life and not necessarily an impediment to such person being perceived as "good" (or even, being the cause of that "goodness"), which I am okay with.

But it was always misguided! (Gods don't exist in Star Trek)

 

[Ghel]

God could easily exist within the Star Trek universe. I don't know that you have to do so per-se, but episodes could simply depict a character commenting that they are going to chapel or have a character wear a skull cap or other religious symbol (even if fictional to avoid any one contemporary faith). Depict someone praying to center him/herself in the same way one would show Spock meditating. Beyond that, simply treat that character as a competent crew member along side any other crew member.
In addition, the way to avoid turning religion into something disenchanting or even goofy is to avoid meeting "God" on some strange planet. Similarly, I think that episodes in which someone turns to religion only to suddenly turn into a mindless and bloodthirsty maniac are similarly rediculous. People can and do fight over religions, but we also fight over nation states, political parties, skin color, accents, and anywhere else that someone in power thinks that he or she can gain more power by convincing others that it's "us" vs "them." <--Incidentally, this is not an attempt to derail this into a discussion over the validity of religion or the utility of faith, simply how to depict faith on a TV show without turning it into something heavy handed.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, they did. Pretty explicitly in each episode. You might want to go back and review them.

Some day...some day.

 

[BJ Wagner]

Maybe the writers have kept a little distance portraying future human religion because they are unwilling to ruffle feathers by showing how our belief systems might change if life on other worlds is discovered?

If some religions have a hard time adjusting to changing beliefs like gay rights and a woman's right to choose abortion, how will they deal with alien life if that life has no religion or a fundamentally different belief system? If we have people who believe the world is just a few thousand years old, what will those people think of an alien race that claims they have existed for millions of years and have a recorded history to prove that?

Interesting possibilities for debate here.

 

[Tenacity]

Maybe the writers have kept a little distance portraying future human religion because they are unwilling to ruffle feathers by showing how our belief systems might change if life on other worlds is discovered?

The Star Trek writers are not exactly the bravest group of people. The safest course of action (if you want to go that route) would be to show modern religions as essentially intact in the future, while showing aliens as possessing their own unique faiths. And yes have a certain number of characters being either agnostic or atheist.

If some religions have a hard time adjusting to changing beliefs like gay rights and a woman's right to choose abortion

True some do.

Religions are composed of individuals, some religions have over a billion members. The members are all going to have their own thoughts on the dogma of their particular religion. The Pope has declared that the sin of abortion can be absolved in the confessional, but he also said "I wish to restate as firmly as I can that abortion is a grave sin, since it puts an end to an innocent life."

Whether you personally consider a fetus to be life (or innocent) is a individual viewpoint.

how will they deal with alien life if that life has no religion or a fundamentally different belief system?

The same as they deal with such in modern day society. Either with indifference, tolerance (if not acceptance) or with rejection, depend on the precepts of a given religion, and the personal behavior of individuals.

How would a atheist deal with the existence of alien religion? Tolerance or condemnation?

If we have people who believe the world is just a few thousand years old

If you're referring to the "young Earth" hypothesis, relatively few Christians adhere to that. The Earth is created in six days, but the term "days" can be seen as meaning periods or events.

The Quran says the Earth was created in six days, but the term "youm" (day in Arabic) can be used in different way. In one passage in the Quran (70:4) the term youm refers to a time period of fifty thousand years.

Jews (as it was described to me) do hold that the "days" in the six days of creation are "different."

Hindus have the event of creation at over 155 trillion years ago, that number involves a large number of deaths and rebirths of the universe.

what will those people think of an alien race that claims they have existed for millions of years and have a recorded history to prove that?

Probably come down to "good for them."

Interesting possibilities for debate here.

Agree.

In the Federation, the member species likely have religions by the thousands. I can't see the Federation having one main religion, but I also can't see the federation being mostly atheist either.

 

[BJ Wagner]

"How would a atheist deal with the existence of alien religion? Tolerance or condemnation?"

This is something my wife and I discussed last night. For myself if say, Jesus Christ, appeared before me and said, "Hey... You've gotten it all wrong." I'd be like, "Sorry, dude. I chose my path based on the information I decided to go with. My faith was science, and I'm the kinda guy who likes proof." I'd then enroll in Bible School and start attending church. But that's just me.

But what would happen if a 12 foot tall alien with tentacles appeared in Vatican City and said, "Hey, guys. I'm Kevin from Alpha Centari. A few thousand years ago I stopped on this planet for a picnic with the family and left behind a rough-draft of a novel I was working on in Creative Writing 101. Looks like someone picked it up and things got misinterpreted... Sorry!"

Would it be easier for someone who doesn't believe in religion to suddenly be faced with the fact that they were wrong and that God does exist and created the universe, or for someone whose faith was just shown to be based on a complete fabrication?

Suddenly you have a God, or suddenly you have no God. I think it would be easier to accept a god then lose one.

 

[Tenacity]

Perhaps it would be easier to be given something of importance, than to have such taken away.