I am willfully removing myself from this part of the overall conversation because I'm not in the mood for a silly argument. We're essentially in agreement about the Vulcan salute. Let that be enough.
How Can Religion Get Portrayed Like DS9 Again?
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
- Start date
The American Civil Liberties Union has filed many lawsuits to stop Christmas observances on public property.
Even something as innocent as little children singing Christmas carols in a grade school pageant can bring retaliatory legal action.
Children obviously are not "the state."
Captain Kirk met Dr. Noels at a Christmas party (not a holiday party), perhaps the future ACLU should have file yet another lawsuit over the naming of the party?
The TOS Enterprise has a chapel.
Data mentioned (Data's Day) that a Hindu religious festive was taking place right there aboard the Enterprise D.
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As A Christian this is my favorite prayer
'Lord save us from your followers. Amen'
Okay? Separation of Church and State mean anything to you? I would be no more in favor of Islamic or Jewish displays on public property (not that I really care). And I'm sure Christians would scream Bloody Hell if there were Islamic observances on public property.
http://interfaithalliance.org/americanmuslimfaq/
Okay? Never bothered me. But, I guarantee that Christians would once again be screaming Bloody Hell if it was a place of worship for those that believed in other religions.
Heck, Muslims have issues getting building permits to build their places of worship here in the US.
Christians look laughably stupid when they try to play the persecution card. They've done (and continue to do) their fair share of persecution.
Keep in mind that TOS was written and produced in the 1960s, when it was taken for granted that there would always be Christmas parties and religious observances. Did you notice how bare-bones the Enterprise chapel is? That's to accommodate a wide variety of different religions, both human and alien. And I expect that this room serves other purposes when not needed for religious services. After all, TOS didn't have a holodeck like TNG did.
If anyone on the Enterprise objected to such services, I should think that Kirk would say something to the gist of "Don't like it? Nobody is forcing you to attend it." IDIC, and all that.
And...? Was the entire ship forced to attend? No. If anyone wanted to attend who wasn't Hindu, were they allowed? I would hope so, as long as they were respectful.
Did it make people of faith so tired because the idea of an organized "War on Christmas" is a complete fiction that only happened in their nightmares and it kept waking them up?
The only people in Western history who actually attacked Christmas were fellow Christians called The Puritans, you know those Pilgrim Fathers you all revere so much.
But they love Thanksgiving!
I realize that there are other parties in this discussion on both sides, but it's when I see something like this...
...that I consider locking the thread because it doesn't belong in this forum anymore.
Upon further consideration, I'm moving this thread to Miscellaneous, where it can continue being what it's become.
Except the Pilgrims weren't Puritans. Different bunch.
But you're right about Christmas. Neither group seemed to like it much. On the flip side, though, the Pilgrims loved their beer.
And setting fire to people, that great pre Reformation Christian tradition lolExcept the Pilgrims weren't Puritans. Different bunch.
But you're right about Christmas. Neither group seemed to like it much. On the flip side, though, the Pilgrims loved their beer.
The discussion behind the 1st Amendment's Establishment clause was going too far (I did not endorse it).. like I've said before in my religion threads.... Star Trek really can't endorse or side with a particular religion (though I am not counting Secularism as one) over the other. Starfleet and the people of UFP are mostly Secular Humanists and religion has mostly died down down. If we took one view over the other (except for maybe Atheism,) it would offend fans who didn't believe in and turn them away. Agnosticism will be fine for now... I don't know why it would change...
I meant no harm...
No matter which view one takes, it's going to offend someone. You can't win.
And that Stephen Fry quote does tend to spring to mind...
Stephen Fry said:
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I am offended by that = How dare you not believe what I believe!!!!!!
Since we don't see much of Earth, maybe there are places we don't hear about in books/shows where it's alive and well. If Christianity could survive 2,000+ years of persecution, surely it can survive a few hundred of intellect getting in the way of faith. It only takes a mustard seed...
Faith can exist in a Star Trek universe, however some of those fundamentalists would need their own planet. Imagine wanting to do an evangelistic campaign on Vulcan and Andoria? Never gonna happen!Since we don't see much of Earth, maybe there are places we don't hear about in books/shows where it's alive and well. If Christianity could survive 2,000+ years of persecution, surely it can survive a few hundred of intellect getting in the way of faith. It only takes a mustard seed...
Maybe they'd snag a would-be Sybok or two?
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