Honestly, Insurrection isn't that bad...

[Trekker4747]

It's probably been a solid 10 years since I've seen this, at least 8.

I watched it again this afternoon and, well.

It's really not that bad. (Will Nemesis see the same result? How much THC would I need?)

I was always on that side of the argument and I remember the discussions over it before it came out. Originally it was a darker script, Stewart and Spiner would only agree to do it if they had some measure of script control, Berman kept restricting Frakes's directing they went "out of the way" in mak8ng the "good" aliens a bunch of human-looking pretty white people and the "bad" ones were ugly gray creatures. It was 1998. (Damn! I was a year out of high-school still living at home when this came out.)

But I watch it and, yeah, okay it's a mid-season two-part episode. I haven't had an actual one of those in almost 5 years, so, I'll take it. The characters are here, the diplomatic nonsense they're usually working on, things go haywire and a major character or two has to stand up for something or achieve something.

Give it to me. I wish we were on the Enterprise-D, but...

Some of the broader humor is out of place, most of it involving Data, the joystick used to pilot the Enterprise is a bit silly, but...

Troi and Riker finally hooked back up, so you have to love it.

How about you? When's the last time you watched this one and what do you think of it?

 

[Set Harth]

Haven't felt the need to revisit it since it came out.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

Honestly, yes it is

 

[Firebird]

Insurrection is my second favorite TNG movie after Generations. Much of what drives that is both feel like extended TNG episodes, which I'm not using as a pejorative in this case. First Contact and Nemesis try too hard to make Action Picard a thing, which is a misread of the character in my eyes.

 

[Trekker4747]

First Contact's Picard also dealing with his experiences with the Borgs in an almost Moby-Dickian way and Action Picard is also in Insurrection's climax.

First Contact remains the favorite, the spirit works for me more when it comes to some moments with the characters.

 

[korblborp]

i never thought Insurrection was particularly bad. what i do think about it is that it feels like a decent two-parter with slightly more effects budget. which is not necessarily how one wants a theaterfilm to feel.

 

[CoveTom]

My main problem with Insurrection is that it is one time where I agree with the admiral and think that Picard is wrong.

Other than that, I think it is a very decent film. Not a masterpiece by any means, and not as good as First Contact, but still well done and fun. I love Jonathan Frakes as a director and though he was reportedly limited a bit by Berman, I think he always does a good job. The effects are well done and I love Goldsmith's new opening theme.

Is it a home run? No. But is it a serviceable enough TNG film? Yeah, I think so.

 

[BillJ]

I guess now that we have Section 31, Insurrection is no longer the worst Trek film. It is still terrible.

 

[NCC-73515]

It's much better than Nemesis, 2nd or 3rd best of the TNG movies depending on where I put GEN (FC is of course the best).
I love the very Trek "How many people does it take before it becomes wrong" dialog, and the designs (new shuttle, yacht, Son'a ships, dress uniforms) and music are outstanding.

 

[DonIago]

I'd like it more if the plot made more sense instead of having so many logistical problems.

OTOH, I've probably talked about the ethics of the situation more than I've talked about most of the other films combined, so I guess that's maybe a point in this one's favor?

F. Murray Abraham is wasted here.

 

[Tosk]

Insurrection has some truly terrible bits in it, but I don't think it's terrible overall.

My main problem with Insurrection is that it is one time where I agree with the admiral and think that Picard is wrong.

You think that a community should be kidnapped and moved elsewhere just because someone else who came along way later wants what they have? You're welcome to of course, just checkin'.

 

[Mage]

Even though not very well executed, INS is the one TNG movie that tries to do what TNG did so well as a show; have a moral situation at its heart. Now, it's been debated on this forum where exactly things went wrong quite a lot, and OP's original post mentions a lot of it.
I still enjoy it, even though flawed.

 

[CoveTom]

You think that a community should be kidnapped and moved elsewhere just because someone else who came along way later wants what they have? You're welcome to of course, just checkin'.

If moving 600 people from Point A to Point B could provide medical advancements to help billions, yeah, absolutely I do.

 

[Tosk]

If moving 600 people from Point A to Point B could provide medical advancements to help billions, yeah, absolutely I do.

Which is better...when they were going to move them without their knowledge, or when they tried to do it by force?

The medical advancements were completely available already, just that The Man didn't want to do it the slow way. They wanted to render a resource useless for generations just so that they could use some of it NOW.

 

[CoveTom]

Which is better...when they were going to move them without their knowledge, or when they tried to do it by force?

The medical advancements were completely available already, just that The Man didn't want to do it the slow way. They wanted to render a resource useless for generations just so that they could use some of it NOW.

Right now, in today's society, the government can come in and use eminent domain to take away people's private property to build a new highway, a hospital, a school, etc. Sometimes, entire blocks of a town have to be cleared out to make way for something like that. Now, I'm not going to suggest that all uses of eminent domain are justifiable -- I don't like it when they try to seize land to build a casino, for example -- but we as a society have decided that sometimes, people's private property rights get overridden to support the public good.

Now, that is not exactly analogous, but it does a halfway decent job of illustrating the point. I don't think "they were here already" is always enough. Sometimes, there are other considerations.

 

[Trekker4747]

If moving 600 people from Point A to Point B could provide medical advancements to help billions, yeah, absolutely I do.

As Picard says, how many people does it take before it becomes wrong? What "right" did the Federation have on the planet? The Baku didn't know or ask to be in Federation space, heck the Baku (and the So'na) were there first.

It's pretty simple logic, you simply can't go to a place, stamp your foot down and say, "this is mine now, you go away."

 

[Hellbird]

I dont think it's that bad, really. It has a middling season 7 feeling to it, but has a strong message at its heart.

 

[Tosk]

Right now, in today's society, the government can come in and use eminent domain to take away people's private property to build a new highway, a hospital, a school, etc. Sometimes, entire blocks of a town have to be cleared out to make way for something like that. Now, I'm not going to suggest that all uses of eminent domain are justifiable -- I don't like it when they try to seize land to build a casino, for example -- but we as a society have decided that sometimes, people's private property rights get overridden to support the public good.

Now, that is not exactly analogous, but it does a halfway decent job of illustrating the point. I don't think "they were here already" is always enough. Sometimes, there are other considerations.

Now imagine if it was a foreign government doing it to a U.S. town. I wonder how that would go.

 

[Steve Roby]

I'm not a fan. I don't think it's horrible, but I don't think a lot of it was thought through very well, and I wouldn't be on either the side of the magic space hippies or the plastic surgery disasters.

Anyone read Michael Piller's book Fade In? There was a free version floating around for a while, but it was eventually published in book form. Piller tries very hard to give the impression that he had a great story that needed a little work but it kept being pulled in wrong directions by Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, and studio execs. Unfortunately, we get to see what his original ideas were, and they aren't any better. For a start, he's weirdly old-fashioned:

We fade in to a formal military ball... the young men in their dress uniforms, the pretty girls in gowns of swirling pastel colors. We might be watching the first reel of GONE WITH THE WIND except that officer over there has a blue head and a Vulcan admiral stands guard at the punchbowl, watching the glee of the young dancers with dispassion. [...]

Why aren't the young women wearing their dress uniforms too?

The spirit of swashbuckling heroes from an earlier generation still lives in the hearts of these young men. They joined Starfleet to make a difference, to bring to all corners of the galaxy all that is good about modern man.

Oh. Because Starfleet's for boys.

Piller's right that the final product is a bit of a mess because too many people were pulling in different directions. But in my opinion he's wrong that it's worse than what he came up with on his own.

 

[FredH]

I did like that Insurrection tried to do the traditional Star Trek “morality play on another planet, and Earth is not in any way in danger” plot for once.