Do you want to be spoiled? All this is easy to clear up.
Nah, I'd rather speculate for now, sans spoilers. I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm cheating!
"historical" episodes of The Vampire Diaries?
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
- Start date
Nah, I'd rather speculate for now, sans spoilers. I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm cheating!
J
Jetfire
Guest
Caroline does get better...I couldn't stand her most of S1.
I agree but I love her in season 2
Does Damon reset her personality from "annoying" to "acceptable" like he did with Jeremy? Between doing that and just killing characters outright, Damon is like a one-man cleanup crew for writers having second thoughts. 
J
Jetfire
Guest
You will see. 
[edit] S2 Caroline is great.
[edit] S2 Caroline is great.
I could not stand Caroline for most of season 1. Season 2 for Caroline is great. She goes from annoying to interesting, at least in my book.
I hated Tyler Lockwood in season 1, but he also benefits from season 2.
Damon for me still remains the show's strongest selling point.
That alone is funny. I hated Boone on LOST.
With the locket, the history, the lore, the show is finally moving along at that point of season 1.
Something just clicks on season 2 though. It is like the cast really gets into their characters and the writers see a good plan of action.
I hated Tyler Lockwood in season 1, but he also benefits from season 2.
Damon for me still remains the show's strongest selling point.
That alone is funny. I hated Boone on LOST. With the locket, the history, the lore, the show is finally moving along at that point of season 1.
Something just clicks on season 2 though. It is like the cast really gets into their characters and the writers see a good plan of action.
...then again, who says the vamp who killed Alaric's wife was male? Maybe Alaric has been waiting for the comet to return, just like Damon, and has a tidy little revenge plan all mapped out, once that tomb finally gets pried open*.
But I still hope it was Stefan. Maybe they don't want to play that card so early in the show, but sooner or later, Saint Stefan's wicked past is bound to catch up with him - literally.
*Are we expecting there to be more folks than just Catherine in there? I was kinda fuzzy on that.
But I still hope it was Stefan. Maybe they don't want to play that card so early in the show, but sooner or later, Saint Stefan's wicked past is bound to catch up with him - literally.
*Are we expecting there to be more folks than just Catherine in there? I was kinda fuzzy on that.
J
Jetfire
Guest
There are a bunch of vamps in the tomb.
Ick.
Now I'm envisioning them tumbling out by the dozens, like clowns out of a circus car.
Now I'm envisioning them tumbling out by the dozens, like clowns out of a circus car.
I saw the one where Elena and Damon go to Georgia and the one where Jeremy's "home schooled" friend Anna and the bartender jock turn out to be vampires who are up to something.
So it was Damon who killed Alaric's wife after all. A bit disappointing - that was the most obvious option. I still want to see Stefan's past catch up with him, although I do see how it's too early in the game for that.
However, I wonder if they're implying that Alaric could be Elena's father? He'd only need to be in his mid-30s if he were a teenager at the time, like his girlfriend.
I'm not sure why they felt the need to explain why Elena has a different surname than Katherine, yet is her descendent. Everyone has lots of ancestors who had different surnames, as long as they aren't in the 100% male line, which wouldn't be true of Katherine anyway. Who knows what her married name was?
Because there's no overt reason that the writers had to make Elena adopted, I suspect the real purpose is to establish that Jeremy is not her biological brother. And the reason for that is not some quasi-incestuous pairing in their future (yuk) but because being Katherine's descendent has some special aspect that has yet been revealed, and the writers want that specialness to accrue to Elena alone, since she's one of the three main characters yet doesn't have much special going for her in comparison with all the other major characters, other than being Stefan's girlfriend and the perpetual damsel in distress, which is really getting old.
They are obviously setting up the love triangle now, but they're going to have a tough time making it plausible without making Elena seem like a huge idiot. Well, she's a huge idiot now (and so is Stefan) because there's no rational reason why they both shouldn't be trying to drive a stake through Damon's heart, all the time, 24 hours a day, until they succeed. He's a serial killer and he's not going to be happy eating squirrels forever, and at any rate, why shouldn't he pay for the many crimes he's committed in the past?
Elena came off particularly badly in intervening when Lexy's boyfriend tried to torch Damon. He had every right to do that, and by stopping him, Elena is guilty of Bree's death, even though she was also perfectly right to get Lexy's bf to try to get rid of Damon. Whatever sympathy I may have had for Elena is now destroyed. I know there's no chance of this, but if the show wanted to kill off Elena for good, I wouldn't mind one bit.
So I guess I just need to deal with the fact that I'm not going to buy the love triangle they will now be setting up, not one iota, but I'll just watch for the other elements that I do like (such as Jeremy's history project). I'm also frankly getting a little tired of Damon's schitck now, and it won't be long until Stefan's one-note saintliness is going to grate as well. Here's hoping for some character growth kicking off for both by the end of S1.
So it was Damon who killed Alaric's wife after all. A bit disappointing - that was the most obvious option. I still want to see Stefan's past catch up with him, although I do see how it's too early in the game for that.
However, I wonder if they're implying that Alaric could be Elena's father? He'd only need to be in his mid-30s if he were a teenager at the time, like his girlfriend.
I'm not sure why they felt the need to explain why Elena has a different surname than Katherine, yet is her descendent. Everyone has lots of ancestors who had different surnames, as long as they aren't in the 100% male line, which wouldn't be true of Katherine anyway. Who knows what her married name was?
Because there's no overt reason that the writers had to make Elena adopted, I suspect the real purpose is to establish that Jeremy is not her biological brother. And the reason for that is not some quasi-incestuous pairing in their future (yuk)
but because being Katherine's descendent has some special aspect that has yet been revealed, and the writers want that specialness to accrue to Elena alone, since she's one of the three main characters yet doesn't have much special going for her in comparison with all the other major characters, other than being Stefan's girlfriend and the perpetual damsel in distress, which is really getting old.They are obviously setting up the love triangle now, but they're going to have a tough time making it plausible without making Elena seem like a huge idiot. Well, she's a huge idiot now (and so is Stefan) because there's no rational reason why they both shouldn't be trying to drive a stake through Damon's heart, all the time, 24 hours a day, until they succeed. He's a serial killer and he's not going to be happy eating squirrels forever, and at any rate, why shouldn't he pay for the many crimes he's committed in the past?
Elena came off particularly badly in intervening when Lexy's boyfriend tried to torch Damon. He had every right to do that, and by stopping him, Elena is guilty of Bree's death, even though she was also perfectly right to get Lexy's bf to try to get rid of Damon. Whatever sympathy I may have had for Elena is now destroyed. I know there's no chance of this, but if the show wanted to kill off Elena for good, I wouldn't mind one bit.
So I guess I just need to deal with the fact that I'm not going to buy the love triangle they will now be setting up, not one iota, but I'll just watch for the other elements that I do like (such as Jeremy's history project). I'm also frankly getting a little tired of Damon's schitck now, and it won't be long until Stefan's one-note saintliness is going to grate as well. Here's hoping for some character growth kicking off for both by the end of S1.
I would have to disagree with the idea that Elana is stupid. For this particular genre she is very smart.
As for keeping damon alive , she pretty much treats Damon as a very dangerous guard dog.
As for keeping damon alive , she pretty much treats Damon as a very dangerous guard dog.
Not being familiar with the genre, I have nobody to compare Elena with. I've considered the notion that since Damon is no threat to her, he's useful to keep alive. But wow, that is a very selfish attitude, considering that he's an ongoing threat to everyone else.
For instance, what if Damon were to get peckish and find only Jeremy around to snack on? But I'm expecting this to be the type of show that would do something like that, and I suspect that may be a false hope. (Not that I have anything against Jeremy, I'd figure out a way for him to not be dead - maybe Bonnie can raise people from the dead and not have them be vampires or brain eating zombies?)
Here's what a reasonably smart and moral person would do in this situation: either go to the authorities and risk being laughed at (ironically, the authorities wouldn't laugh at her at all), or decide that it's too big a risk (they'd go after Stefan as well as Damon and it's anyone's guess whether they'd buy Stefan's squirrel-eating story) and take matters into your own hands. If you won't or can't turn it over to the cops, then vigilante justice is the only alternative. Damon should be dead for real by now.
Another option is for Elena to tell Stefan to leave town and then go to the sheriff. Sure, that means the young lovers must part forever, but what's more important, some teen romance or the well-being of an entire community?
For instance, what if Damon were to get peckish and find only Jeremy around to snack on? But I'm expecting this to be the type of show that would do something like that, and I suspect that may be a false hope. (Not that I have anything against Jeremy, I'd figure out a way for him to not be dead - maybe Bonnie can raise people from the dead and not have them be vampires or brain eating zombies?)
Here's what a reasonably smart and moral person would do in this situation: either go to the authorities and risk being laughed at (ironically, the authorities wouldn't laugh at her at all), or decide that it's too big a risk (they'd go after Stefan as well as Damon and it's anyone's guess whether they'd buy Stefan's squirrel-eating story) and take matters into your own hands. If you won't or can't turn it over to the cops, then vigilante justice is the only alternative. Damon should be dead for real by now.
Another option is for Elena to tell Stefan to leave town and then go to the sheriff. Sure, that means the young lovers must part forever, but what's more important, some teen romance or the well-being of an entire community?
Not selfish exactly. Elana has two big traits. First she has Very strict priorities. Her family and friends being at the top. Second she is above all other things pragmatic and practical, to the point of being almost ruthless.
If it came down to the survival of her brother or one of her close friends and half a dozen strangers. She would pick her brother or friend first. This is not to say that she doesn't care about those strangers. It's just that her family and close friends are the priority. Damon is at first a threat to her and hers then a useful tool. She has a grudging respect for Damon eventually but I still think she would kill him if she thought he was an immediate threat.
There are many threats to Elena and her family and friends. Threats Elena can't handle alone and let's face it Stephan may have a rockin body but he just doesn't have the power to protect her and hers alone. Damon is powerful, ruthless, intellegent and despite himself doesn't want harm to come to his brother. So he makes a useful if dangerous ally.
That may be Elena's personality as written, but it sure doesn't make me like her much, for her to be a blinkered, selfish, vapid teen who cares only about her family and to hell with the rest of the world. But I'm not watching this show for her, more like, despite her.
And how much does she care about Jeremy anyway, if she won't tell him the truth about what happened to him at the tomb - just for his self-defense, he has the right to know that vampires are around. I hope when he finally learns that Elena has been bringing vampires to the house, one of whom brainwashed him, Jeremy makes a huge scene about it and doesn't just shrug and say, well you must know best because you're all of two years older than me.
The stuff with the tomb was interesting and provides what this show needs at this point, more insight into the brothers with the possibility of development. Now it's getting clearer why Damon is so angry. Katherine doesn't return his feelings, and there's no way he didn't know that. He's wrapped himself in delusions that never had to be put to the test as long as the tomb was sealed. Now that his delusions have been exploded, there's no telling where the character goes.
But I doubt Stefan's self-hate/martyr complex comes from his unwitting role in getting Katherine caught. He really wasn't guilty of anything in that scenario. More likely, it's because of what he did as a new vamp.
And how much does she care about Jeremy anyway, if she won't tell him the truth about what happened to him at the tomb - just for his self-defense, he has the right to know that vampires are around. I hope when he finally learns that Elena has been bringing vampires to the house, one of whom brainwashed him, Jeremy makes a huge scene about it and doesn't just shrug and say, well you must know best because you're all of two years older than me.
The stuff with the tomb was interesting and provides what this show needs at this point, more insight into the brothers with the possibility of development. Now it's getting clearer why Damon is so angry. Katherine doesn't return his feelings, and there's no way he didn't know that. He's wrapped himself in delusions that never had to be put to the test as long as the tomb was sealed. Now that his delusions have been exploded, there's no telling where the character goes.
But I doubt Stefan's self-hate/martyr complex comes from his unwitting role in getting Katherine caught. He really wasn't guilty of anything in that scenario. More likely, it's because of what he did as a new vamp.
That may be Elena's personality as written, but it sure doesn't make me like her much, for her to be a blinkered, selfish, vapid teen who cares only about her family and to hell with the rest of the world. But I'm not watching this show for her, more like, despite her.
And how much does she care about Jeremy anyway, if she won't tell him the truth about what happened to him at the tomb - just for his self-defense, he has the right to know that vampires are around. I hope when he finally learns that Elena has been bringing vampires to the house, one of whom brainwashed him, Jeremy makes a huge scene about it and doesn't just shrug and say, well you must know best because you're all of two years older than me.
The stuff with the tomb was interesting and provides what this show needs at this point, more insight into the brothers with the possibility of development. Now it's getting clearer why Damon is so angry. Katherine doesn't return his feelings, and there's no way he didn't know that. He's wrapped himself in delusions that never had to be put to the test as long as the tomb was sealed. Now that his delusions have been exploded, there's no telling where the character goes.
But I doubt Stefan's self-hate/martyr complex comes from his unwitting role in getting Katherine caught. He really wasn't guilty of anything in that scenario. More likely, it's because of what he did as a new vamp.
Except she's not a selfish vapid teen. Prioritizing who to save and who not to is the heart of triage. It may be ruthless but it's not selfish. She is more than willing to sacrifice herself for others and her seriousness is the opposite of being vapid.
Considering that vampires are a national and possibly global scourge, I don't think one teenage girl has the authority to make that judgment. The responsibility of all citizens, when they uncover threats to law and order, not to mention life and limb, is to alert the proper authorities immediately, especially if have no reason to believe that the authorities have already been alerted to the situation.
Given that her idea of "triage" is "save the people I care about and to hell with the rest," she clearly shouldn't have that authority either. You don't give people authority who lack objectivity or moral basis to use authority sensibly.
Imagine a doctor in wartime performing triage on the basis of who he likes or is related to him. Slight ethical problem there.
But all this proves is what I already knew: I'm not the target market for this show.
Clearly the underlying logic here is "love conquers all," and that does mean all, including such trivialities like morality, sanity, common sense and common decency. These people can't be held responsible for anything they do, as long as they do it for luuuuuvvvv.Would sacrifice her relationship with Stefan by telling him to leave town for good before she alerts the authorities that Damon is a vampire (thus casting suspicion on him)? If so, why doesn't she do that? Because she's putting her personal need to have Stefan around before the safety and lives of others. There's no nice way to spin this using real world logic. It only works if you use teenage-vampire-show logic.
Well that's my civics lesson for the Fourth of July! Off to see the fireworks now...
You are early in the 1st season and openly admit to skipping overstuff. So quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. But once you go back and watch the stuff you skipped and catch up with the rest of us you will actually be able to give an informed opinion one this subject. Till then, if I wish to not give spoilers , I can only say that you wrong.
^ As someone who has watched every ep from day one and really likes the show, I don't think Temis is wrong on that point. I agree with you that Elena is much more serious of a character than Temis realizes, but I also agree with Temis that, especially early on, Elena's choices are selfish ones to protect people she loves rather than for the greater good of humanity. On the other hand, I do think she learns from the consequences of those choices and starts to try to make different ones in season two. And on the third hand LOL she is supposed to be just a teenage kid ruled by hormones, so maybe making selfish choices rather than bigger picture ones is... realistic?
I do agree that Elena does make some dumb and selfish choices. However, I think almost every character on that show makes some very bad moves. I put that down to the writers allowing their characters to be stupid/clever, selfish/altruistic, brave/cowardly and everything else that is involved in being human.
No one is overly saintly - not even the self martyred Stefan.
What I like about the show is that making the selfish choices sometimes comes back to bite them all in the backside.
As to alerting the authorities, all I will say is that it is addressed in several different ways, but not necessarily in the way you think it will work out.
The pool of who knows what about whom will widen, and I think a bit of the enemy known comes into play.
No one is overly saintly - not even the self martyred Stefan.
What I like about the show is that making the selfish choices sometimes comes back to bite them all in the backside.
As to alerting the authorities, all I will say is that it is addressed in several different ways, but not necessarily in the way you think it will work out.
The pool of who knows what about whom will widen, and I think a bit of the enemy known comes into play.
It seems to me that the choices Elena makes is always about keeping those she loves safe, regardless of who they are (friend or family). And, yes, it usually backfires in the end (don't all love stories do that?).
Without giving too much away, I've been enjoying the outcomes in the current season, historically speaking. But I love the new twists that have come in to play and I think that anyone new to the series will enjoy them once they get there. And as long as they have the summation of what happened in the first two seasons, I think anyone starting on their TVD journey will be just fine in understanding the subplots. I'm glad I found this thread. Not very many of my friends are in to this genre. Damon is the first bad guy that I absolutely enjoy watching.
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