Hey, I never noticed that before....

[plynch]

Right, I clearly implied it was life and death and major leaguers should treat each other poorly. Huh?

The idea is if you're competing, you compete all out, while still being sporting. Frankly, I wish major league teams would shake hands. After the game though.

But to chat and be buddies during a game very likely undermines competitiveness.

Plenty of examples of people who are fierce competitors on the field, yet very decent and good people. The two need not be mutually exclusive, nor do they have any connection to poor parenting.

Baseball used to be much less chatty and collegial between teams, AND parents then were much less crazy about kid sports.

I'm not implying anything causative. Just saying fierce competition on the field need not undermine a sporting attitude, nor lead to weird parenting.

 

[BK613]

MLB plays 162 games a season; I am not surprised that the routine brings in a fair amount of civility. Kind of glad, actually, because too much competitive attitude can be toxic.

 

[Noname Given]

He'd have a good reason to think in terms of the unnatural. The planet was polluted by a horrible bioweapon that had killed Tracey's crew. Supposedly the weapon had originally been intended to kill the natives, though. These natives were not dead, so something new had emerged on the planet to protect them, after the introduction of the weapon - either the warring sides had developed an antidote, or then the local conditions unexpectedly provided one.

That this antidote might be connected to the amazing longevity is the leap. But Tracey explains his logic there: he feels the longevity is the consequence of these people being amazingly healthy. And this health can logically be credited to the antidote, because it's so unnatural to Tracey, and the antidote is the one out of the two unnatural things he already has established as being present on the planet (the other being the weapon) that could in theory give perfect health.

Mind you, an antidote in the air does exist - this is why our heroes survive. The naturally long lives are an independent phenomenon, not something Tracey could deduce from the other evidence, but the evidence in turn is fully suggestive of it not being an independent phenomenon!

The interesting thing here is that Tracey's illegal actions are not logically related to the longevity thing at all. There's nothing selfish about him siding with the losing side in a genocidal war when he could get his purported antidote from the winning side just as well (and when he himself is a natural candidate for a member of the winning side, by looks!). Only what he next proposes (but never achieves) smacks of selfishness, but buying one's way out of Starfleet execution pits with the antidote sounds like a victimless crime...

Timo Saloniemi

Exactly the whole premise of their long life was the fact that after the war; as Captain Tracy had said, no one on the planet has ever contracted any type of disease.

So the implication was that their lives were so long because there was no disease organisms whatsoever harming their organs at any time in their lives.

As for the "which planet had the United States first"; It was obviously their planet that was first; and Earth was an example of parallel planetary development which was one theme often used in the original Star Trek. Their version of the US existed many many thousands of years before hours; because again it was stated it took generations before all disease was eradicated on their planet;; and afterwards as we saw lifespans of a thousand years or more were not uncommon.

 

[Discofan]

Exactly the whole premise of their long life was the fact that after the war; as Captain Tracy had said, no one on the planet has ever contracted any type of disease.

So the implication was that their lives were so long because there was no disease organisms whatsoever harming their organs at any time in their lives.

As for the "which planet had the United States first"; It was obviously their planet that was first; and Earth was an example of parallel planetary development which was one theme often used in the original Star Trek. Their version of the US existed many many thousands of years before hours; because again it was stated it took generations before all disease was eradicated on their planet;; and afterwards as we saw lifespans of a thousand years or more were not uncommon.

You know. It's star trek so you can always come up with about a hundred of these theories and if you ask the writers about it, assuming they even remember having written this episode, they'll come up with one that will make the most foolish unlikely of your theories sound like hard science.

 

[MAGolding]

Exactly the whole premise of their long life was the fact that after the war; as Captain Tracy had said, no one on the planet has ever contracted any type of disease.

So the implication was that their lives were so long because there was no disease organisms whatsoever harming their organs at any time in their lives.

As for the "which planet had the United States first"; It was obviously their planet that was first; and Earth was an example of parallel planetary development which was one theme often used in the original Star Trek. Their version of the US existed many many thousands of years before hours; because again it was stated it took generations before all disease was eradicated on their planet;; and afterwards as we saw lifespans of a thousand years or more were not uncommon.

I wonder how long a year of planet Omega IV lasts.

Just recently I answered a question about the possible limits to the year lengths of habitable planets orbiting different stars.

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange...ar-length-for-habitable-planets/194711#194711

If you read it you will notice that the length of the shortest possible year of a human habitable planet is highly uncertain. But if some scientific theories are correct, a human habitable planet could possibly have a year only a few Earth days long. which would make a thousand years of such a planet equal just part of a normal human lifetime.

But probably Starfeet veterans like Kirk, Tracy, and McCoy wouldn't make the mistake of failing to account for the year length of Omega IV. They wouldn't think that a lifetime of of a thousnd Omega IV years was very impressive unless they knew that the Omega IV years were failrly close to Earth years in length.

 

[Commishsleer]

You know. It's star trek so you can always come up with about a hundred of these theories and if you ask the writers about it, assuming they even remember having written this episode, they'll come up with one that will make the most foolish unlikely of your theories sound like hard science.

GR wrote this episode as an alternate pilot didn't he so it should have been a masterwork.
Its considered to be one of TOS worst episodes but if you can look past the ridiculous unexplained Earth parallels, the amazing coincidences (ad writing) its got a lot of action, got freaking 'Captain Tracey'. Bottom 20 episode for me but only just.

Was watching 'The Enterprise Incident' the other day and noticed when they captured Spock sending messages to Kirk the Romulans mucked around for 15 minutes before firing on the Enterprise. I know they were looking for Kirk/intruder but if he were on the Enterprise then they needed to destroy it and if he wasn't on the Enterprise then they needed to destroy it...???

 

[MAGolding]

GR wrote this episode as an alternate pilot didn't he so it should have been a masterwork.
Its considered to be one of TOS worst episodes but if you can look past the ridiculous unexplained Earth parallels, the amazing coincidences (ad writing) its got a lot of action, got freaking 'Captain Tracey'. Bottom 20 episode for me but only just.

Was watching 'The Enterprise Incident' the other day and noticed when they captured Spock sending messages to Kirk the Romulans mucked around for 15 minutes before firing on the Enterprise. I know they were looking for Kirk/intruder but if he were on the Enterprise then they needed to destroy it and if he wasn't on the Enterprise then they needed to destroy it...???

The Romulan commander wanted to bring in an intact starship to study for its technological secrets. Destroying it without any need would cost her a chance for a big promotion.

Decades ago the US government offered a reward of $ 100,000.00, back when that was enough to live in luxeuy for a lifetime, to defecting Soviet pilots who landed their MIGs safely in a US base.

 

[Timo]

Xactly. The Commander was in a jam: she couldn't dare appear weak, but OTOH she couldn't possibly destroy her prize. Her absolute best bet was to seduce Spock, but even there she had to take risks, both with the seduction failing, and with her crew finding fault in the procedure.

We can come up with a dozen alternate ways of taking over the starship, but all the M:I style coincidences in the adventure suggest that this was a preplanned operation where the presence of Spock was known in advance and was a key element in the capture plan. And, in the best agent adventure tradition, this was all part of the bait carefully prepared by Starfleet. Ah, the joys of rationalizing in a genre that comes pre-rationalized, for the James Bond value of rationality...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[plynch]

I think people who dismiss Omega are missing the point of Star Trek '66: thoughtful fun. It's got a what-if at the core (several) . . . and it's "the one witn the flag"!

I liked Trek as a nerd kid, because it was smart heroes going about doing good in thoughtful stories. (As opposed to, say Superfriends.) But it's not Playhouse 90, if I may mix my eras.

It's one big set up to have the flag appear and James T recite the Preamble!

Great, cheesy fun. Ok, I like it and can justify it. That's what's really going on here .

 

[BK613]

So, was the M. Night Shyamalan ending with flag always there in the story?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I liked Trek as a nerd kid, because it was smart heroes going about doing good in thoughtful stories. (As opposed to, say Superfriends.) But it's not Playhouse 90, if I may mix my eras.

But I think it wanted to be Playhouse 90.

 

[plynch]

Yeah, I love its higher aspirations too. The early eps especially have a play-like quality to the dialogue that was lost. Even Kirk going off on US principles near the end of Omega is in that ballpark.

But to get down on a Trek ep for basically being a premise to have a crazy Captain and then . . . the flag! with Sir Wm Shatner going off on it -- that's pretty star trekky stuff to get down on. Ok, made my point, moving on, be well . . .

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe it doesn't happen in America but here in Australia I've seen parents abuse 16 year old umpires in kids games. I've stopped my younger children attending my 14 year olds football game because of the foul language parents yell out towards the umpires and other team members. So I'm happy when the players don't act all crazy to win at all costs.

Oh, it happens in the United States a whole lot.

That's why I prefer tennis. Still a sport where competitors are generally looked to shake hands after the match.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, it happens in the United States a whole lot.

That's why I prefer tennis. Still a sport where competitors are generally looked to shake hands after the match.

Except McEnroe

 

[fireproof78]

Except McEnroe

True enough. But, even when they don't people notice it.

 

[Maurice]

GR wrote this episode as an alternate pilot didn't he so it should have been a masterwork.

To be fair, he was still figuring the show out at that stage, and his take on Spock in that "Omega" pilot is some weird path not taken. "Omega Glory" was the script that was to demonstrate the "parallel worlds" idea in the show pitch, a script which apparently nobody but Roddenberry liked much.

 

[Noname Given]

Xactly. The Commander was in a jam: she couldn't dare appear weak, but OTOH she couldn't possibly destroy her prize. Her absolute best bet was to seduce Spock, but even there she had to take risks, both with the seduction failing, and with her crew finding fault in the procedure.

We can come up with a dozen alternate ways of taking over the starship, but all the M:I style coincidences in the adventure suggest that this was a preplanned operation where the presence of Spock was known in advance and was a key element in the capture plan. And, in the best agent adventure tradition, this was all part of the bait carefully prepared by Starfleet. Ah, the joys of rationalizing in a genre that comes pre-rationalized, for the James Bond value of rationality...

Timo Saloniemi

Even when I was watching the episode in syndication for the first time (I was around 12); even I was dumbfounded by the Romulan Commander's belief that whomever took the Cloaking Device was still somewhere on the Romulan ship -- Yes, I didn't have a issue with her order to search the ship; but it's like the idea of someone beaming onto and them beaming off her ship never occurred to her - and for me that was as she came across as both intelligent and competent.

The other thing that (even then, I always went about was the fact that Kirk beamed aboard sans ANY tools whatsoever; and somehow the Federation either knew or assumed the Cloaking device was something that just popped out/was able to be unscrewed BY HAND and further that it was compact enough to be taken away by ONE person...

And yeah, if ANY episode showed Mr. Scott as some Engineering super genius, it was that fact he could immediately understand the new Romulan tech, and hook it up to the 1701 Deflector Shield Grid in under 15 minutes. Yeah, his great, great, great great, great grandfather must have been MacGyver...

 

[David cgc]

The other thing that (even then, I always went about was the fact that Kirk beamed aboard sans ANY tools whatsoever; and somehow the Federation either knew or assumed the Cloaking device was something that just popped out/was able to be unscrewed BY HAND and further that it was compact enough to be taken away by ONE person...

Watching the episode knowing that Fontana intended the actual cloaking device to be some small, key component that could be removed and slipped into a pocket makes some aspects make a lot more sense. For instance, when Kirk gets to the cloaking room and studiously examines every part of the room except for the big glowing machine in the center, and has to mention the cloaking device to a Romulan crewman and follow his eyeline to figure out where it is.

 

[Timo]

The plot sort of yells for Starfleet to have lots and lots of advance intel, so that what looks like a "madman" to us at first and a "bumbling and fumbling idiot" later on is in fact putting on a con act and knows exactly what he's doing.

Yet the fact that Kirk doesn't know what the device looks like speaks against that. Although neither does the Commander!

In fact, and in line with some later portrayals ("Emperor's New Cloak"), I suspect the device itself is supposed (in-universe!) to become invisible when activated. It not being visible on its pedestal thus isn't proof of any theft yet, and the Romulans barging in are entitled to knowing that the pedestal device indeed is the cloak - they just avert their eyes from that location because they know they are not supposed to be seeing anything up there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Commishsleer]

To be fair, he was still figuring the show out at that stage, and his take on Spock in that "Omega" pilot is some weird path not taken. "Omega Glory" was the script that was to demonstrate the "parallel worlds" idea in the show pitch, a script which apparently nobody but Roddenberry liked much.

Are we lucky that Omega didn't end up being the pilot?
I'm intrigued. Was it the Spock who didn't eat?