Hey, I never noticed that before....

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Much of the development process for any spacecraft is getting the weight down without compromising safety. BTW, according to everything I've read on the subject, the pressure vessel walls on the LM Ascent Stage are so thin, you could punch a hole in them with a pencil.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

In print, "moon shot" seems to be ticking up in 1966, and peaking '71-'72.

Could be. But phrases that show up between the bound covers of a book might be a lagging indicator when it comes to capturing the content and style of our spoken communications.

"Mystery of the Lizard Men," the first episode of Jonny Quest, mentions "the first man to the moon shot is scheduled for today," and that was in September of 1964 (which means that that line was scripted as much as a year earlier).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

This 1964 View-Master packet, Project Apollo, which I actually have, doesn't say "moon shot" at all:
http://viewmasterworld.blogspot.com/2013/03/project-apollo-b658.html

I think "moon shot" was used mostly by Hollywood writers, just a bit by journalists, and seldom if ever in NASA's official statements and printed materials of the period.

 

[johnnybear]

There even is an episode of The Invaders called Moonshot from 1967 I believe!
JB

 

[J.T.B.]

I think "moon shot" was used mostly by Hollywood writers, just a bit by journalists, and seldom if ever in NASA's official statements and printed materials of the period.

My impression is the word "shot" transferred over from the world of ordnance testing, where you fired a new cannon to "prove" it, if it didn't blow up it was proven. Each test was a shot. This transferred over to atomic testing after WW2 (Crossroads Able shot, Crossroads Baker shot etc.) and into rocket/missile testing. But "moon shot" seems to really have caught on with the public for the Pioneer lunar probes, and their Soviet counterparts, in the late '50s. Which makes sense because they either made it to the moon or they didn't, and quite a few missed the target.

So I'd very much agree that it was popular usage, as opposed to technical or official. Which would fit with a radio news broadcast as in the episode. I'm not so sure it was infrequently used in the press, there are hundreds of newspaper references just in 1966 and 1967. Here are a few headlines:

• Orlando Evening Star, 24 Jan 1966: "Moon Shot Still Seen By 1970"
• Honolulu Star-Bulletin, 8 Feb 1966: "Soviets plan followup steps to Moon shot"
• Louisville (KY) Courier-Journal, 10 Feb. 1966: "Moon-Shot Problems Called Solved"
• Paterson (NJ) Morning Call, 5 Apr 1966: "Moon-Shot Group Lists 19 Spacemen"
• Oakland Tribune, 9 May 1966: "Manned Moon Shot in 1969 Possible, Senators Informed"
• Miami Herald, 10 May 1966: "Moon Shot Predicted For 1969"
• Spokane Spokesman-Review, 10 Aug. 1966: "Moon Shot Postponed"
• Salt Lake Tribune 20 Nov 1966: "U S Making Great Gains in Space—Moon Shot by 1969?"
• Orlando Evening Star, 17 Jan 1967: "Pioneer Astronauts Have Chance For Moon Shot"
• The Tampa Tribune, 11 May 1967: "Apollo Fire Hikes Cost of Moon Shot $75 Million"
• Albuquerque Journal, 31 July 1967: "Public Now Wants Moon Shot Halted"
• Montreal Gazette, 2 Aug 1967: "U.S. Moon Shot Well Away"
• The Oneonta (NY) Star, 4 Oct 1967: "'Clouds' mire moon shot"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm basically agreeing with @J.T.B.'s analysis, but I have a question. What about the word "manned"? Is it redundant, or was there such a thing as an unmanned moon shot that was referred to as such (e.g. the American Lunar Orbiters or the Ranger landers, or the Soviet Luna probes)? Some of the headlines above would seem to indicate that the answer is it was basically redundant, but I thought I would ask anyway.

 

[J.T.B.]

I'm basically agreeing with @J.T.B.'s analysis, but I have a question. What about the word "manned"? Is it redundant, or was there such a thing as an unmanned moon shot that was referred to as such (e.g. the American Lunar Orbiters or the Ranger landers, or the Soviet Luna probes)? Some of the headlines above would seem to indicate that the answer is it was basically redundant, but I thought I would ask anyway.

Yes, as I mentioned before the late '50s is when "moon shot" took hold with the public for the Pioneer and Luna programs. Any well-informed person would have been aware of unmanned probes going to the moon, so "manned" would not have been redundant. Also, headline writers don't usually have room for subtleties.

 

[ItsGreen]

Before I posted I googled "first manned moon shot" and it referenced Apollo 11,
however searching now on wikipdia it can mean

Moonshot, moon shot or Moonshots may refer to:

• Apollo program, American spaceflight program to land humans on the Moon
• Moon landing, the landing of a spacecraft of the surface of the moon

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Before I posted I googled "first manned moon shot" and it referenced Apollo 11,
however searching now on wikipdia it can mean

Moonshot, moon shot or Moonshots may refer to:

• Apollo program, American spaceflight program to land humans on the Moon
• Moon landing, the landing of a spacecraft of the surface of the moon

And now it's slang for any huge project whose ambitious objective may or may not be achieved:
https://www.wired.com/story/apollo-11-moonshot-21st-century/

 

[Search4]

Perhaps they didn't fly Apollo 8 to the Moon in the Trek universe? I mean, NASA didn't intend to in ours, either, until the Russkies got their Zond act together and gave them a scare. Perhaps there was no around-the-Moon shot before the one where they actually tested the LM. And perhaps that is when they panicked, and landed the LM so that the Soviets wouldn't get there first. So, the first-ever Moon test shot, analogous to Apollo 10 but done one flight later, was also the landing.

Timo Saloniemi

You should watch “For All Mankind” on Apple’s streaming service. That’s the beginning of the plot.

 

[BK613]

The last revision of the script of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" are listed as on 22 November and 1 December 1966, while the bridge scenes in the episode were filmed on November 28 & 29, 1966.

Anyway, the eastern time zone of the USA would be using Eastern Daylight Time when Apollo 11 launched on July 16, 1969. So why would the radio announcement give the time in Eastern Standard Time?

This seems to prove that the "first manned moon shot" in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" must have launched when the eastern USA was not using Eastern Daylight Time, and thus not within a few months of July 16, 1969.

At the time the script was written, the Uniform Time Act hadn't been enacted. It's effective date was April 1, 1967. Prior to that, the US was on standard time (for the most part, there was a hodgepodge). Wikipedia says:

"From 1945 to 1966 there was no federal law on daylight saving time, so localities could choose when it began and ended or drop it entirely. As of 1954, only California and Nevada had statewide DST west of the Mississippi, and only a few cities between Nevada and St. Louis. In the 1964 Official Railway Guide, 21 of the 48 contiguous states had no DST anywhere."
​

So giving the time in one or the other makes sense.

 

[MAGolding]

At the time the script was written, the Uniform Time Act hadn't been enacted. It's effective date was April 1, 1967. Prior to that, the US was on standard time (for the most part, there was a hodgepodge). Wikipedia says:

"From 1945 to 1966 there was no federal law on daylight saving time, so localities could choose when it began and ended or drop it entirely. As of 1954, only California and Nevada had statewide DST west of the Mississippi, and only a few cities between Nevada and St. Louis. In the 1964 Official Railway Guide, 21 of the 48 contiguous states had no DST anywhere."
​

So giving the time in one or the other makes sense.

I never wrote that it didn't make sense for the script of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" to give the time as either EST or EDT, I wrote that in our alternate universe the only manned moon shot that launched on a Wednesday was Apollo 11, which launched when Daylight Saving Time was in effect almost everywhere in the USA, snad so the announcer shoudl have said Eastern Daylight Time if he was talking about Apollo II..

I quote "Tomorrow is Yesterday":

MAN [OC]: This is the five thirty news summary. Cape Kennedy. The first manned Moon shot is scheduled for Wednesday, six am Eastern Standard Time. All three astronauts who are to make this historic

If the announcer says the blast off is scheduled for 6 AM Eastern Standard Time, the announcer clearly believes that Cape Kennedy in Florida and/or the places where his listeners are, are in the Eastern Time Zone of the USA.

Places in the Eastern Time Zone include Haiti, Cuba, Quebec, Ontario, Florida, Georgia, South Caroline, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Ohio, Indian, Michigan, and eastern parts of Kentucky and Tennessee.

https://www.chegg.com/homework-help...apter-1-problem-4e-solution-9780134195421-exc

Where did the Enterprise appear in the skies?

WEBB: None, sir. It was just there, like it fell out of the sky or something.
CAPTAIN: (suddenly interested) Current position?
WEBB: Directly over the Omaha installation, sir. Holding there.

And the news report was heard on the Enterprise bridge just a few minutes afterwards, so the starship probably didn't have time to move very far. before the bridge crew heard that news report. Captain Christopher's jet fighter caught up with it shortly afterwards, for example.

Omaha, Nebraska is in the central time zone. So would a radio signal from someplace in the eastern time zone be picked up near Omaha, Nebraska, hundreds of miles away? And if the transmitter had such range, would the announcer assume that everyone in range would be in the Eastern Time Zone?

So maybe the announcer meant that Cape Kennedy was would be using Eastern Standard Time the next Wednesday.

In 1969 states that used Daylight Savings Time were required to start on Sunday, April 27, 1969, and stop on Sunday, October 26, 1969. So if the first manned moon shot was Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, its scheduled launch time would be given in Eastern Daylight Time if Florida was on daylight savings time in 1969, and in Eastern Standard Ttime if Florida was not on Daylight Saving time in 1969.

I think that Florida was on Daylight Saving Time in 1969. If so, the announcer would have said Eastern Daylight Time if he was giving the Florida time of the launch.

In that case:

The first manned moon shot in Star Trek was scheduled to launch on a Wednesday sometime when Daylight savings time was not in effect in Florida, and thus between October of one year and April of the next year. Apollo 11 was the the only manned moon shot that launched on a Wednesday, on July 16, 1969, and that was during Daylight Saving Time. So Star Trek would have to be in an alternate universe where the first manned Apollo mission was launched sometime when Florida was not using daylight saving time.

Or else:

The first manned moons h shot in was Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, and Florida was not using Daylight Saving time when it launched. Therefore, Star Trek would have to be in an alternate universe where Florida did not have Daylight Saving Time in 1969.

But what if Florida didn't use Daylight Saving times in 1969 in our history? Then it would be quite correct for the announncer to say that the first manned moon shot would be launched on a Wednesday, at a time given in Easter Standard Time. Thus Star Trek would not have to happen in an alternate universe.

Except that the announcer said that the first manned moon shot would launch at:

Wednesday, six am Eastern Standard Time

And Apollo 11 launched on July 16, 1969, at 13:32 GMT or UTC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11#Launch_and_flight_to_lunar_orbit

GMT is Greenwich Meridian Time, which is the same time as UTC or Coordinated Universal Time. 13:32 UTC is the same as 1:32 PM UTC, and 13:32 UTC should be 08:32 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time, or 09:32 AM EDT (Eastern Daylight Time).

When did the announcer say the first moon shot would launch?

Wednesday, six am Eastern Standard Time

So the real launch time of Apollo 11 was 2 hours and 32 minutes after when the announcer said that the first manned moon shot would launch. Unless someone can find proof that the launch of Apollo 11 was scheduled for 6 am EST (or 7 AM EDT) but the countdown was delayed for about two and a half hours, Star Trek must happen in an alternate universe which diverged from ours at least as early as Tuesday, July 15,1969 (the latest possible date for the news broadcast).

 

[plynch]

In case anyone is obsessive about this stuff, the western counties of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (the counties bordering Wisconsin) are on central time. The way the jigsaw of counties works, one can travel west and go from central to eastern time. The community just west of us is technically in central, but the population base is in eastern, so they run the casino (a big deal up here) and school on eastern.

 

[BK613]

I never wrote that it didn't make sense for the script of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" to give the time as either EST or EDT,

And I didn't write anything in my post defending TOS getting the time and date right, only the reason that it appeared in the script to begin with, and how it would have made sense to the writer, regardless of the time of year.

 

[MAGolding]

And I didn't write anything in my post defending TOS getting the time and date right, only the reason that it appeared in the script to begin with, and how it would have made sense to the writer, regardless of the time of year.

And the purpose of my original post was not to accuse the writers and creators of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" of having a malfunctioning crystal ball, but to demonstrate that the launch of the first manned moon shot in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" proves that Star Trek is in an alternate universe which diverged from ours at least as early as July 15, 1969, and possibly much earlier, regardless of whether that was every the intention of anyone involved with making "Tomorrow is yesterday" or any other Star Trek production.

 

[BK613]

@MAGolding My post was meant informational (and I bolded the parts of your post I was speaking to.) Not everyone today knows that the current use of DST in the US only dates to the 1960s. None too few seem to think that Ben Franklin invented it....

 

[EnriqueH]

Spock tells Kirk “You’d make an excellent Nazi” in Patterns of Force, which i saw yesterday.
I was like

 

[johnnybear]

I think Spock was being facetious and could also have been complementing the Captain on his smartness! Who knows? Vulcan humour?
JB

 

[Dale Sams]

In Immunity Syndrome (I think when they are putting everything into clearing the Zone of Darkness) ...in engineering a guy goes flying off the staircase in the background. I loled.

I also observed how good Doohan is at doing engineering stuff. Pushing buttons, checking readings. A truly lost art in Trek. No show has ever matched engineering dilemma scenes in That Which Survives or Naked Time.or even something so simple as Spock trying to fix the phaser controls in Balance of Terror.

 

[ItsGreen]

In Spock's Brain, I noticed what looks like 2 verticle holes in his ear? Maybe part of his superior hearing? maybe it's the lighting or angle but even the actual ear hole looks large (almost looks like a nose, mouth and chin sideways)?