Hey, I never noticed that before....

[Noname Given]

After the initial exchange of ambiguities, the Guardian in "City" was quite coherent and cooperative. So either these pleasantries were already out of the way for "Yesteryear" thanks to this first meeting, or then the TAS adventure omitted their tedious repeat when cutting straight to action?

Timo Saloniemi

Well the TAS episode "Yesteryear" also have the Guardian of Forever contradict itself in that in TOS S1 "City On The Edge of Forever", It stated it could only offer the past in one manner (The quick fast forward style); yet in the TAS episode, characters were able to specify the planet and the exact time and date they wished to pass to and the Guardian was able to suddenly send them to that exact day / time.

 

[Timo]

...Which might well be a case of the heroes failing to ask the right questions. They just mistake the visual menu for the user interface initially.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

All someone would have to say was "Guardian, show me last Wednesday on the Enterprise, between 13:03 and 13:04"
It wouldn't matter how fast the GOF did the playback, you'd still arrive more or less when you needed to

 

[Swedish Borg]

All someone would have to say was "Guardian, show me last Wednesday on the Enterprise, between 13:03 and 13:04"
It wouldn't matter how fast the GOF did the playback, you'd still arrive more or less when you needed to

Why is he even called a guardian? Guardians are supposed to keep people out not invite them in. He's more like a host of forever...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Why is he even called a guardian? Guardians are supposed to keep people out not invite them in. He's more like a host of forever...

Indeed. It does seem as if the "Guardian" has a major security hole.

 

[dupersuper]

Or they brought someone in that knew how to ask the right questions.

City on the Edge of Forever:
"KIRK: Guardian. Can you change the speed at which yesterday passes?
GUARDIAN: I was made to offer the past in this manner. I cannot change."

Yesteryear:
"SPOCK: I wish to visit the planet Vulcan, thirty years past, the month of Tasmeen. Location, near the city of ShirKahr.
GUARDIAN: The time and place are ready to receive you."

Those were some damn effective questions...

 

[Swedish Borg]

City on the Edge of Forever:
"KIRK: Guardian. Can you change the speed at which yesterday passes?
GUARDIAN: I was made to offer the past in this manner. I cannot change."

Yesteryear:
"SPOCK: I wish to visit the planet Vulcan, thirty years past, the month of Tasmeen. Location, near the city of ShirKahr.
GUARDIAN: The time and place are ready to receive you."

Those were some damn effective questions...

The first time they used it, the Federation disappeared...

The second time, Spock disappeared....

The third time, Kirk lost his hair...

 

[BK613]

City on the Edge of Forever:
"KIRK: Guardian. Can you change the speed at which yesterday passes?
GUARDIAN: I was made to offer the past in this manner. I cannot change."

SPOCK: Well, that doesn't seem very useful. Guardian, can a traveler visit a specific time and place in history?
GUARDIAN: Yes, if sufficient time and location information is provided.
(IOW, Kirk and Spock assume that leaping through the portal as history is replayed is the only way to use the portal.)

 

[Swedish Borg]

SPOCK: Well, that doesn't seem very useful. Guardian, can a traveler visit a specific time and place in history?
GUARDIAN: Yes, if sufficient time and location information is provided.
(IOW, Kirk and Spock assume that leaping through the portal as history is replayed is the only way to use the portal.)

Given the speed, that time was moving even jumping at the "same time" Kirk and Spock could have landed a couple of days apart from each other.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

SPOCK: Well, that doesn't seem very useful. Guardian, can a traveler visit a specific time and place in history?
GUARDIAN: Yes, if sufficient time and location information is provided.
(IOW, Kirk and Spock assume that leaping through the portal as history is replayed is the only way to use the portal.)

True. But our heroes *don't* know the specfics on when/where/how McCoy changed history, so they can't request a precise time to enter the portal.

Later, when in the basement, Kirk continues to be realistic that McCoy's interference may not be in the city:

SPOCK: First, I believe we have about a week before McCoy arrives, but we can't be certain.
KIRK: Arrives where? Honolulu, Boise, San Diego? Why not Outer Mongolia, for that matter?

So our heroes don't have any exact information until Spock gets a fragment from his tricorder. Once he gets the info, even then he receives two histories.

 

[UssGlenn]

But our heroes *don't* the specfics on when/where/how McCoy changed history, so they can't request a precise time to enter the portal

Something else they didn't think to ask the Guardian.

 

[BK613]

Something else they didn't think to ask the Guardian.

Agreed. The Guardian knew from when to pluck them so it must of had some way to track them.

Edit to add: And the point I was speaking to is whether what was presented in COTEOF and Yesteryear conflict. I was showing how they might be compatible. All Kirk asks is if the history presentation is stuck at 30fps and the Guardian says yes.

 

[Noname Given]

Indeed. It does seem as if the "Guardian" has a major security hole.

Well he technically is one big 'hole', himself. (And I say he because it was a male voice the Guardian used in TOS S1 - "City On The Edge Of Forever". )

 

[Swedish Borg]

Well he technically is one big 'hole', himself. (And I say he because it was a male voice the Guardian used in TOS S1 - "City On The Edge Of Forever". )

He looks like a giant donut.

 

[Mytran]

Why is he even called a guardian? Guardians are supposed to keep people out not invite them in. He's more like a host of forever...

I had an idea about that...

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that rather than haphazardly creating and narrowly resolving crisis after temporal crisis, what the GOF actually "guards" are these predestination paradoxes that are essential to the makeup of this particular timeline.

 

[FormerLurker]

He looks like a giant donut.

That someone sat on, because he's irregular and flat.

 

[Maurice]

Originally the Guardians of Forever guarded the time vortex, and they could call it up, and were demonstrating it for Kirk when Beckwith leapt through. They freaked when it happened and vanished back to their Kirk-described "city on the edge of forever" to decide what to do, and when they reappeared basically told Kirk "suck it, what's done is done" and Kirk had to plead with them to let him and Spock go back to try to undo the damage.



The mechanics of the vortex were different in Ellison's script. You could pick a time to go to, but "Time cannot be doubled," so they could not jump through to arrive at the same time as Beckwith. "Before or after," so they chose before.

You can blame the staff writers for any inconsistencies in the aired episode.

 

[BK613]

That someone sat on, because he's irregular and flat.

Not symmetrical enough for a doughnut.

A bagel, on the other hand.....

 

[scotpens]

Not symmetrical enough for a doughnut.

A bagel, on the other hand.....

I've always referred to the Guardian as the Giant Lopsided Time Bagel.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I've always referred to the Guardian as the Giant Lopsided Time Bagel.

Shouldn't that be the Lopsided Giant Bagel of Time, for the acronym?