Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Oh? I rather think the fact that she wasn't was. I mean, that's how the crisis of the episode is resolved, by Troi refusing to command and instead cleverly listening to "advice" amounting to insubordination.
Every one of the three players had their forte. O'Brien knew how to keep the ship together the conventional way. Ro knew all the dirty tricks. And Troi knew people. And all three were aware of this, never letting command structures get in the way of a good rescue.
Troi managed. It's basically the opposite of commanding in a situation like this. Or in general, for that matter.
Timo Saloniemi
Every one of the three players had their forte. O'Brien knew how to keep the ship together the conventional way. Ro knew all the dirty tricks. And Troi knew people. And all three were aware of this, never letting command structures get in the way of a good rescue.
Troi managed. It's basically the opposite of commanding in a situation like this. Or in general, for that matter.
Timo Saloniemi
This would be an example of the writers not understanding and getting it wrong that I was referring to earlier.
Exactly. Because Everybody Gets a Line and we all need a bit of faux drama to pad the episode.
I'm not debating anything: I made a comment or two about people not knowing what the term chain of command meant and offered up an explanation when asked for more info.
Not necessarily. Sulu being in command could be a situation where he only steps into the role and assumes the authority when circumstance demands it. Otherwise, he's a dept head just like all the other dept heads.Phaser Two said:
And if Joe is a dept head as well, the line makes sense, because in a RW chain of command, dept heads would be peers and not answerable to each other.Phaser Two said:
These are not real people; they are characters that do what the writers have them do. Writing 101 says you write about something you know; the writers of this episode obviously didn't know how military/hierarchical command structures work.
Yeah, except that's wrong. The show had plenty of people on it who were veterans. Roddenberry was, I assume, familiar with the hierarchy of the LAPD as well as the military. So the military hierarchy errors are actually not logical.
That diagram is great! What people sometimes don't understand is that on a ship everyone has their everyday job, but they also have "watch, quarter and station bill" assignments that may temporarily put them under different authority. For instance on the battleship, at general quarters/battle stations the supply department people (cooks, stewards, storekeepers, barbers, laundry etc.) would be on gun crews, damage control parties, aid parties and so on. Same with standing watches (which is not part of your normal work, but in addition to it), you could be assigned to a watch under an officer from a different department.
More obscure but may be of interest to someone: Note that in WW2 the "hull department" (also called the C[onstruction] & R[epair] department) under the first lieutenant is responsible for damage control; DC didn't move to engineering until the '50s. This was a holdover from the days of sail when the first lieutenant was responsible for everything above-deck or exterior, including hull maintenance. The C&R department had both the bosun and the carpenter. The bulk of the manpower for hull maintenance, deck work and boats, however, came from the gunnery divisions, where you'd find most of the unrated seamen. Except for one of the divisions (usually the highest-numbered) which would be Marines.
Everyone assigned to the Enterprise fits in the Enterprise chain of command somewhere because they report to Kirk, or report to someone who reports to Kirk, or report to someone who reports to someone etc. What you seem to be referring to is line of succession to command, which only comes into play in the absence of the captain and other senior officers in line. It just seems wrong to have a junior grade in position of giving orders to a superior grade; what did the LCdr do wrong so he wasn't put in charge? In reality that kind of situation would be avoided at all costs.
In the old days of the Royal Navy, the seconds-in-command (called the Commander) were responsible for the exterior upkeep and appearance of their ship, and were almost obsessed with it because it reflected directly on their career prospects. The Commander of a Mediterranean Fleet battleship asked the Captain if he could start painting early one day. The Captain said no, I plan to have general quarters drill. So all hands went to general quarters drill, and because the Captain had been a little annoyed with the Commander's request, he kept them at it even longer than normal. At some point, he decided to make it even more interesting for the Commander, and declared himself a casualty. A messenger went to the Commander and said "The Captain's been killed, sir." "Well thank God for that!" the Commander said. "Secure from drill! Call painting parties!"
The Captain had to admit he'd been bested and took it in good humor.
The Captain had to admit he'd been bested and took it in good humor.
Nice attempted dodge, but you still got hit dead on by the ball.
I don't think that GR had much to do with a TNG episode that aired three days before he passed.
The net result being that you were always part of some chain of command with just one unambiguous boss immediately above you. If you were standing the switchboard watch, it was the Engineering Officer of the Watch. If you were assigned to a DC station, it was the officer and/or CPO leading that particular DC party. And if you were not on watch or manning any of the other special circumstances listed on the WQS bill, your chain of command ran through your division and department. Only one immediate boss in that situation, from whom you received orders and a designated set of subordinates (if any), to whom you gave orders in that situation.
Because a crisis is the worst time to try to figure out who's in charge.
Navy trivia is always an interest to me.
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I was referring to the Star Trek episode The Naked Time. I don't think that was a TNG episode, nor did Mr. Roddenberry die three days after its airing.
And I wasn't referring to the Naked Time with my Writing 101 comment but to the 5th season TNG episode Disaster which was what the Swedish Borg quotes were about.
Yes, I see that now and I apologize. There was . . . let's call it . . . a board function at play that made it seem as though you were responding to me.
No worries. I probably should have grouped the quotes by poster rather than leaving them in chronological order.
And you willfully ignore that Troi commanded the bridge long before she became a bridge officer.
True enough. They really did go overboard with the braid. And of course, after Poor Joey you hardly saw an LTJG for the rest of the series, amplifying the problem.
...Until we see it a couple years later in Yesteryear. I guess they upgraded it...?
Not really. Talking about a community here where people would know each other, know where they worked, know who their co-workers were, etc.
Or they brought someone in that knew how to ask the right questions.
After the initial exchange of ambiguities, the Guardian in "City" was quite coherent and cooperative. So either these pleasantries were already out of the way for "Yesteryear" thanks to this first meeting, or then the TAS adventure omitted their tedious repeat when cutting straight to action?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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