Nope. Thats simply the interpretation you CHOOSE to take.
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
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Janice Lester was never so down to earth.
That probaly could be said of your as well, yes?
Lester: Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women.
Kirk: Ahh, actually there have been plenty of women admitted into my world of starship captains, generally about half Janice.
(which Kirk of course didn't say)
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I covered both of those items in this previous reply, with a bit more detail:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/hey-i-never-noticed-that-before.274883/page-147#post-13436544
The calculator in "That Which Survives" was a re-use of the remote control from "Spock's Brain," which in turn was a re-modeled version of "The Cage" communicator prop.
Lester: I loved you. We could've roamed among the stars.
I'd say she was talking about their prior romance there.
It’s pointless to argue with a nutjob. Working in retail for many years I can tell you when you encounter someone with a fixed idea, even if you know for a fact it’s dead wrong, you simply don’t waste your breath trying to debate them. You simply smile and let them go their way in their ignorance. The more you try to dissuade them the harder they hold to their notion.
I've said this before I don't say it again: Remember, to Kirk Janice Lester was that crazy ex; ergo he's not going to disagree with anything she says, just nod and pat her on the head because he's probably been down this road before and he knows if he brings up examples of female captains he's in for a tongue lashing for the next hour.
Did she?
COLEMAN: You couldn't because you love him. You want me to be his murderer.
KIRK: Love? Him? I love the life he led. The power of a starship commander. It's my life now.
KIRK: Love? Him? I love the life he led. The power of a starship commander. It's my life now.
Like Spock later in "The Cage", Number One is the senior officer present, in comander while the Captain is absent. She was not the person appointed by Starfleet Command to be the commander of the starship, but a temporary commander while the regular commander was absent.
Could Starfleet have a rule against female starship commanders while letting female officers take temporary command of starshps, or would female officers be removed from the command track and never permitted to take temporary command while the captain was absent if there was a rule against female starship captains?
You missed the word I embolded.
Well, to be fair, it was the 60's and seeing how the series portrayed women, it is possible the line wasn't meant for interpretation. Perhaps it was what it was. And yes, I know this is not necessarily a reliable source, but it's still possible:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Janice_Lester
Lester's remark to Kirk, that his world of Starfleet captains did not admit women to their ranks, implies the Starfleet culture of the 2260s was more sexist than its 20th, 21st, 22nd or 24th century counterparts. An interpretation offered by the Star Trek Chronology (2nd ed., p. 78) suggests Lester's comment referred to Kirk's inability to maintain a relationship, due to his responsibilities as a starship captain. It also states that Gene Roddenberry, on the other hand, admitted in his later years that the line was simply sexist.
As fans, we do like to perform a little bit of ethical and mental gymnastics to make the series as progressive as possible. However, keep in mind there were only two middle aged men on staff at this point. D.C. Fontana - the lone female voice - was long gone, and Roddenberry (who was far from a bastion of sexual equality) was off doing his thing. If Bob Justman was there, maybe it would have been addressed, he seemed pretty fair minded.
Without anything to really say how it was meant, you are always free to draw conclusions, but honestly...it was the 60's. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Oh, I don't think there's any perhaps about it. It definitely was. "Turnabout Intruder" is clearly a straight-up, not to mention not fully baked, adaptation of the comedy film Turnabout and the book it was based on, a story in which men and women have clearly delineated gender roles as per the era, and a husband and wife swap bodies to experience what it's like when roles are reversed, with hijinks ensuing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnabout_(film)
There was also a short-lived TV series in 1979!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnabout_(TV_series)
One of John Shuck's many, many attempts at sitcom success in the late '70s. I don't remember watching it, but I do remember that it had been described as not actually getting its own premise, whatever that was supposed to mean.
If being female disqualified one from being assigned as commanding officer, it should also disqualify them from being assigned as second in command. The idea that a female officer could succeed to command in the captain's absence, assuming all the responsibility that goes with it, yet never be allowed to be assigned that position no matter how well she did the job of first officer is just absurd.
Why would Starfleet allow its female officers to receive training and experience pertinent to commanding vessels if they could never be assigned command of one of those vessels? It would be a waste; just for efficiency only male officers who could actually go on to hold the higher commands should be assigned as first officer.
I saw the John Schuck / Sharon Gless sitcom in first run on NBC. The leads' cross-gender performances were incredibly broad, cliche'd, and over the top, with brutish cigar chomping vs. effeminate mincing that bore no resemblance whatsoever to their pre-switch performances. It was an unfunny show, terribly played.
must have.
Of course, If all the officers were incapacitated or dead, and Ricky the senior NCO had to take command of the ship, that doesn't mean Ricky would retain the command or one day become the ship's captain.
After everything shook out, Ricky would return to being a senior NCO. And probably be happy for it.
No, there are first officers who never obtain the position of assigned commanding officer. Prior to changes in the military that resulted in female being legally able to become commanding officers, they could be officers at lower levels. And potentially be either officers of the deck, or (differently) being assigned to "the conn."
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Obviously there are XOs who never become COs. But there aren't any XOs who are prohibited from ever becoming COs. That would be stupid.
It's not a question of being legally able to become a commanding officer, it's being able to choose the path that allows one to put together the career building blocks that potentially lead to that position, including assignment as XO. When women in the US Navy were permitted to become unrestricted line officers, it became inevitable that one day a woman would command a navy vessel.
IOW, to emphasize, being able to "command at sea" is a prerequisite to being assigned the XO billet and no officer is ever assigned to an XO billet unless the officer meets that prerequisite. No restricted line officer, staff officer or limited duty officer will ever be assigned to an XO position because those officers are not designated to "command at sea."
Female navigator in "Gamesters of Trikselon".
Don't think Spock hassled here as much as he did Rahda
Don't think Spock hassled here as much as he did Rahda
