We see a female commanding a starship in "The Menagerie"!
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
We see a female commanding a starship in "The Menagerie"!
The TOS lines can be interpreted several ways, so, why not take the meaning that doesn't dismiss female captains in Starfleet at the time? Remember, we are hearing the rantings of a lunatic.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/production-order-group-viewing-2018.294100/page-95#post-13147932
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/production-order-group-viewing-2018.294100/page-95#post-13147932
This has always been the simplest and most straightforward way to address the issue. Janice Lester was nuts and extremely bitter. It isn't that Starfleet didn't allow women to command--it's Starfleet wouldn't allow her a path to command because they could clearly see she lacked the temperament and abilities to command.
And this is why I really disliked the approach the fan production Star Trek Continues took by rationalizing that the Tellarites demanded Starfleet not allow women to command starships to not offend their extreme chauvanism. Note the distinction: STC depicted a woman commanding a starbase, but rationalized a ridiculous excuse to explain why women could not command starships in Starfleet.
What was intended with "Turnabout Intruder" and how new episodes set in the TOS era should handle the issue of female captains are two independent questions. Consistency with stupid ideas is neither necessary nor desirable.
Ignore the episode, it's an embarrassment. The people calling the shots in TI obviously cared little for the legacy of the show, and anyway they thought it was over.
Ignore the episode, it's an embarrassment. The people calling the shots in TI obviously cared little for the legacy of the show, and anyway they thought it was over.
For me, the bottom line is that "Turnabout Intruder" wasn't a very good episode, so I don't see very much to be gained by bending over backwards to explain away a couple of sexist lines of dialogue written circa 1968-69.I count the women can't be Starship Captains line as the rule of that time to be honest! ENT contradicting that does us no favours and so I say ENT is another timeline where that rule wasn't in force so did Janice Lester become a Captain in that reality and Turnabout Intruder ever happen there?
Exactly. When you have such an easy way to explain that line away, it's foolish not to take it, IMO.
And this is why I really disliked the approach the fan production Star Trek Continues took by rationalizing that the Tellarites demanded Starfleet not allow women to command starships to not offend their extreme chauvanism. Note the distinction: STC depicted a woman commanding a starbase, but rationalized a ridiculous excuse to explain why women could not command starships in Starfleet.
...What? They seriously did that? Wow, that's dumb. Why call so much attention to the problem when you could just do something simpler and cooler like showing a female Starship Captain?But Vic Mignogna doesn't have the best record where women are concerned, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
In fact, wasn't Spock in command of "The Enterprise" in "The Menagerie"
He also had command in "Enemy Within", "What Are Little Girls Made Of", "Dagger of the Mind".
The Galileo mission didn't seem that significant until everything went wrong. Spock had 2 senior officers to support him and they were only going to be there 5 minutes.
Was Watching "The Deadly Years" and noticed how Stoker seemed a very unlikely pen-pusher. Gave me the impression he was just some footballing jock.Also I'm vey impressed by Kelley's acting here. In fact the whole lot of them really played their aged parts well. I know the whole cure bit was
I agree
From what we've been able to ascertain Roddenberry had little to do with writing TMOST, despite what the cover says. Poe/Whitfield had a hard time getting Roddenberry's feedback in time for the book to go into print. So where he got certain particulars or if he invented any is difficult to say. Roddenberry? Likely. For certain? No.
This is the sometimes fine distinction between fact and logical inference and a line @Harvey and I try not to cross.
This is the sometimes fine distinction between fact and logical inference and a line @Harvey and I try not to cross.
Re: Female captains. IMO, Lester was nuts, they were talking about Kirk's world of starship captains and Kirk later says a starship command was something she didn't "merit by temperament or training." No mention of her sex being a disqualifier there.
Re: TMoST. According to Justman and Solow, GR had very little to do with the book.
We know that Poe/Whitfield (P/W) had "carte blanche access"(ibid. page 401) but what we don't know is exactly how much of what appears in TMoST is from production information. We also don't what processes were used to curate the information into the final product (for example, were there any conflicting information that required P/W to make a choice?)
Re: TMoST. According to Justman and Solow, GR had very little to do with the book.
During the time it took to write The Making of Star Trek, Whitfield continually requested that Roddenberry edit the newly written material. But Roddenberry procrastinated and finally read the book after it was typeset, and in galleys, and spent "one long night" with Whitfield "making changes." Owing to the book's printing deadline, very few changes were incorporated, and the book was published much as Whitfield had written it. However, at the suggestion of the publisher, Roddenberry's name appeared on the book's cover along with the author Whitfield's name. Ballantine Books considered it a "marketing ploy."
--Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, page 402
--Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, page 402
When watching 'Return To Eden' I suddenly realised that Sevrin could have lived in Eden because it had no natives for him to kill. You know if he wasn't an attempted murderer and and the planet wasn't a death trap. Doh!
Was watching "Who Mourns For Adonis" and noticed that Spock walks around with a slide rule thingy in his hand, ask astrometrics or something to do some calculations instead of doing them himself. How unusual!
Was watching "Who Mourns For Adonis" and noticed that Spock walks around with a slide rule thingy in his hand, ask astrometrics or something to do some calculations instead of doing them himself. How unusual!
It's an E6B flight computer.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6B
Spock used it in "The Naked Time", "Mudd's Women", and "Who Mourns for Adonais."
Edit: Nimoy makes similar use of a prop in "That Which Survives", but this time he's using the remote control from "Spock's Brain" as a kind of pocket calculator. And that prop started life as a communicator in "The Cage." It's clear acrylic body got a paint job and buttons were added.
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Just watched Journey to Babel. In the final phaser shot that kills the enemy ship, the range was ~75,000 km and the phaser shot leaving the ship to hitting the enemy at sublight was about 2-3 seconds. That would make the speed of the phaser around 1/10 or so the speed of light. No wonder they miss so often. 
Remember the Alert and Jettison labels on Kirk's chair in "Court Martial"?
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x20hd/courtmartialhd341.jpg
I just noticed that in "The Gamesters of Triskelion," the labels are still there, but they're peeling:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x16hd/thegamestersoftriskelionhd0351.jpg
"You know you're watching Star Trek too closely when..."
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x20hd/courtmartialhd341.jpg
I just noticed that in "The Gamesters of Triskelion," the labels are still there, but they're peeling:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x16hd/thegamestersoftriskelionhd0351.jpg
"You know you're watching Star Trek too closely when..."
What does the Jettison button jettison?
It's for the ion pod in "Court Martial."
Erstwhile saboteurs in ion pods.. ?
Eeewwww, nasty! How did none of the set dressers notice that? Or just peel them off?
A flight calculator for pilots. In That Which Survives, Spock uses a small hand held calculator with a small number of buttons. But remember the show was first on the air during a time period when many Americans still didn't have phone service to their homes.
My impression is that the "we will roam the stars," was a separate sediment from being a captain. More romance, less career.
The simplest is that this was the universe created by the mind of Gene Roddenberry, and that the world of starship captains doesn't include women is exactly what it sounds like.
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I doubt the labels survived the next 31 episodes, but they did. It looks like they were removed and put back on, over and over again.
