...Indeed, the blood might have gathered crucial intelligence while sitting there atop that conference table!
Makes me think of "The Thing" and that's kind of spooky creepy if the blood could do that.
Hey a question about DS9 and the about changelings..
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
- Start date
Makes me think of "The Thing" and that's kind of spooky creepy if the blood could do that.
Several extracts from scripts of “The Search” Part II. It is a beautiful episode that reveals interesting details about the Changelings.
Well, I guess the Great Link is their society, after all.
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
The link is the very foundation of
our society. It provides a meaning
to our existence. It is the merging
of thought and form. The sharing of
idea and sensation.
Obviously, Changelings are not born with the ability to morph, they acquire it gradually and develop it by assuming many shapes, forms and textures. This is how they learn.
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(pleasantly)
Tell me, Odo, have you made good use
of our arboretum?
ODO
(not sure what she
means)
In what way?
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(surprised by his
response)
By assuming the various shapes
surrounding you.
ODO
Why would I do that?
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(as if explaining to
a child)
To become a thing is to know a thing.
To assume its form... is to begin to
understand its existence.
So when they are out of the Link, they are individuals exploring their surroundings, and in the Link, they communicate their experiences to their fellow shapeshifters.
Well, I guess the Great Link is their society, after all.
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
The link is the very foundation of
our society. It provides a meaning
to our existence. It is the merging
of thought and form. The sharing of
idea and sensation.
Obviously, Changelings are not born with the ability to morph, they acquire it gradually and develop it by assuming many shapes, forms and textures. This is how they learn.
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(pleasantly)
Tell me, Odo, have you made good use
of our arboretum?
ODO
(not sure what she
means)
In what way?
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(surprised by his
response)
By assuming the various shapes
surrounding you.
ODO
Why would I do that?
FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
(as if explaining to
a child)
To become a thing is to know a thing.
To assume its form... is to begin to
understand its existence.
So when they are out of the Link, they are individuals exploring their surroundings, and in the Link, they communicate their experiences to their fellow shapeshifters.
We also know that they aren't 100% merged in the link because they can (attempt to) hide information from the link or from individuals in it. The link tried to hide the fact that there was a changeling spy in the Klingon high command from Odo when he was judged. They didn't succeed entirely, but they obfuscated it enough that he actually had the wrong person (Gowron instead of Martok).
Or they just wanted Odo to think that. I always assumed the whole thing was intentional from the get-go.
The fact that they restricted Odo's access to the Link is not enough to say that merging is not complete. It may be up to the individual changeling how much access they will grant, and conversely, there may be social pressure on individuals to grant complete access.
Perhaps most importantly the Founders deliberately infected Odo, limiting his ability to shapeshift, the skill that is at the heart of the merging that occurs in the Great Link. They were in control of physicality throughout the whole episode, up to the point he was made humanoid.
It doesn't track, though. The only upside they would have from giving Odo that information would be a war between the Federation and the Klingons, but changeling Martok was already achieving that, and he was doing so without anyone suspecting that he was a changeling. It was completely unnecessary and, as the episode showed, ultimately bad for them, since without that mission the Federation Klingon alliance would've fallen to pieces before the Dominion fleet ever arrived in the alpha quadrant.
If it's up to the individual how much access they grant, or if such a thing as 'social pressure' even exists in the link, then that's definite proof that the merging isn't complete. In a 100% merger, the individual would cease to exist.
Also, based on what we saw on the show, I don't believe Odo could've been part of the great link at all if they hadn't temporarily cured his shapeshifting abilities. Linking doesn't work on solids.
How so? The quote says "the very foundation of our society". Not only would it be rather redundant to say that the society is the foundation of the society, but the human analogy would put something like "marriage" or "sex" in the slot the Female Founder uses for the Link. Or perhaps "greed", but she's apparently speaking about a biological foundation there, so...
This assuming that individuals exist in the first place. Separate blobs that mimic humanoids might better be considered pseudopods of one organism instead. It's too bad that we only study the Changeling society through Odo, a known outlier; perhaps he will mature to become one of the Whole eventually?
A single individual today can be divided internally, his or her mind wallowing in the waves of conflicting 'social pressures' and whatnot... One really wonders about the extent to which Odo was manipulated while within the Link, or when Linking with the Female Founder. For all we know, 100% of his body matter was swapped, with 'viruses' or 'tapeworms' hiding in the new matter. Or whatever. The more alien, the better IMHO!
Timo Saloniemi
Social pressure is by definition external, not internal.
But I agree we don't know exactly what happened to Odo at that moment.
Foundation means an underlying base, the separate individuals serve as a basis and when they are brought together, they form the hierarchical structures within a society.
I don’t think that human biological taxonomy is applicable to an alien life form. What is more, pseudopds have a definite form, which was not the case with the changelings. In “Things Past” it was mentioned that the structure responsible for their shapeshifting capabilities is called morphogenic enzymes. Here is a quote from “Behind the Lines.” They have individuality outside the Link, the Link allows them to merge with other individualities.
ODO: But you are a separate being, aren't you?
FOUNDER: In a sense.
ODO: When you return to the Link, what will happen to the entity I'm talking to right now?
FOUNDER: The drop becomes the ocean.
ODO: And if you choose to take solid form again?
FOUNDER: The ocean becomes a drop.
ODO: Ah, yes. I think I'm beginning to understand.
FOUNDER: Then you can answer your own question. How many of us are there?
ODO: One. And many. It depends on how you look at it.
I would not define it as social pressure but a kind of telepathic connection that exists between the linked members. When in liquid state, they could exchange thoughts and ideas at a deeper level but I don’t think that Odo was able to understand, control or counter this connection. I guess this is how he misinterpreted the information about Martok. He was not used to the sensation of the Great Link.
I don’t think that human biological taxonomy is applicable to an alien life form. What is more, pseudopds have a definite form, which was not the case with the changelings. In “Things Past” it was mentioned that the structure responsible for their shapeshifting capabilities is called morphogenic enzymes. Here is a quote from “Behind the Lines.” They have individuality outside the Link, the Link allows them to merge with other individualities.
ODO: But you are a separate being, aren't you?
FOUNDER: In a sense.
ODO: When you return to the Link, what will happen to the entity I'm talking to right now?
FOUNDER: The drop becomes the ocean.
ODO: And if you choose to take solid form again?
FOUNDER: The ocean becomes a drop.
ODO: Ah, yes. I think I'm beginning to understand.
FOUNDER: Then you can answer your own question. How many of us are there?
ODO: One. And many. It depends on how you look at it.
I would not define it as social pressure but a kind of telepathic connection that exists between the linked members. When in liquid state, they could exchange thoughts and ideas at a deeper level but I don’t think that Odo was able to understand, control or counter this connection. I guess this is how he misinterpreted the information about Martok. He was not used to the sensation of the Great Link.
I submit that for purposes of the physical plane, Odo and the rest of the Founders are a collection of stem cells which may or may not need to be separated in order to host individual personalities. In their resting, regenerative state, they appear gelatinous, but because they are stem cells, they can assume any form they wish.
One thing that seemed strange to me that I don't think was ever explained is how they could impersonate (not just look and sound like) humanoids.
What I mean is, for example, a Changeling impersonated Bashir on DS9. It's obvious why he could look, sound, and scan like Bashir, and in superficial ways even act like him. But the Changeling had Bashir's close friend O'Brien and colleagues who knew him well fooled. That means he had to be able to reference events in Bashir's past, know things Bashir enjoyed, etc.. If Bashir hated a certain cocktail but then the Changeling impersonating him ordered it at Quark's, Quark and O'Brien/Dax/any other good friend of his there with him would smell a rat. The same with impersonating Martok to Gowron, etc..
The best I can come up with is that perhaps the memory transfer technology the founders used when a Vorta died and was cloned was used when they kidnapped someone and sent a Changeling to pose as that person, so the Changeling gained the requisite memories?
What I mean is, for example, a Changeling impersonated Bashir on DS9. It's obvious why he could look, sound, and scan like Bashir, and in superficial ways even act like him. But the Changeling had Bashir's close friend O'Brien and colleagues who knew him well fooled. That means he had to be able to reference events in Bashir's past, know things Bashir enjoyed, etc.. If Bashir hated a certain cocktail but then the Changeling impersonating him ordered it at Quark's, Quark and O'Brien/Dax/any other good friend of his there with him would smell a rat. The same with impersonating Martok to Gowron, etc..
The best I can come up with is that perhaps the memory transfer technology the founders used when a Vorta died and was cloned was used when they kidnapped someone and sent a Changeling to pose as that person, so the Changeling gained the requisite memories?
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