Heroes: "The Wall" - 2/1/10 - Grading & Discussion

[dru]

I hate watching this show, but I must see how it ends.

and yet so true!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Now, I wouldn't want to keep the show in the status quo, but some of the elements that really worked from earlier seasons was how the plot was driven. You'd find out a little bit each episode until you saw everything at the end and it all made sense. The audience knew about the bomb, the Shanti Virus, Pinehurst, and Building 26 with in the first few episodes, but not all the puzzle pieces were in place. They used things like Time Travel and Issac's paintings to fill in those gaps until the whole picture was there. Up until like last episode, I had not clue what our Heroes had to stop. That's not good story telling.

Yeah, that's something I miss. I think it was part of the effort to make Samuel's motivations understandable, but it didn't actually accomplish that and just dragged out the plot.

Sylar needs to die. From Season 1-3 to now, he's like a different character and I'm not sure that's entirely a good thing. When he came to be, he was scary. When he showed up, you feared for the other characters lives. He's been meandering for a while now and now that he's "good" again I feel like they just have to kill him. I'm perfectly okay with him having redemption, but not living as a Hero, because I know he'd just be back to being a villain again and the writers would try to chalk it up to be the coolest thing since the show started...

I'm torn here. He either needs to die (somehow) or be evil and set up one final battle. If they decide to end it next season, have Sylar as a bad guy. Otherwise, this set up for a good Sylar means he should die (I don't want him as a Hero).

My idea for the last episode is for the Heroes to have like a "one step up, two steps back" kind of thing. Part of New York City is lost, but Sylar prevents the whole city from being lost and at the same time is killed. But most importantly, the general public learns about people with abilities. Not just the government or scientists like Suresh, but everyone. The next season can take place like a year after this one and deal with the ramifications of the public knowing, perhaps having them go underground or something to that effect. If they are intent on keeping Claire, throw her with Peter. Let's face it the best Claire scenes from ever season are when she's with Peter. Or maybe keep them all together for once (or mostly together. Where would the fun be if they were all in one place?) Ultimately... DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

I think having everyone know would be a cool idea. Basically, I agree that they have to do something different.

 

[knine]

Well, this was a better episode of the season. But why do I feel like they are going to forget about bunches of events they should tie up this season like where Charlie went?

 

[C_Miller]

Alidar- Yeah, I couldn't stomach Sylar being a hero. On the facebook page, there are all these people gushing over Sylar being a hero and how they always knew he was a good guy and how much they love him. I'm sorry, but I can't forget him killing Nathan, Issac Charlie, Chandra Suresh, Zane Taylor, Dale Smithers, Mr. Walker, Jackie, Brian Davis, and violating Claire. There's just too much to that character that just can't be forgotten and it would be sickening to see him running around with Peter, Hiro, Matt, and the others.

But to have him return back to being evil would just be cheap. So far over the entire 4 seasons we've had, Sylar the boogeyman (Beginning of Season 1), Sylar who considers being a Hero (A couple episodes in Season 1), standard villain (end of season 1), powerless (season 2), back to villain (first episode of Volume 3), anti-hero (Beginning of Volume 3), standard villain (end of volume 3), villain who's trying to find themself (Beginning of Volume 4), sleezy villain who simply is looking out for their own self interests (End of Volume 4), Nathan Petrelli (Beginning of Volume 5), the Devil on Parkman's shoulder (Beginning of Volume 5), Good Guy, not even an anti hero (End of Volume 5). He's done pretty much every facet of villain that you can do and everytime he goes back to being a bad guy, the show plays it up like it's completely new, which it's not. To me the only option is let him die a hero, which I think is the direction they're going to take.

 

[Aragorn]

Of course Sylar can be a hero! When a big threat is about to happen, can't you see him going off to the other side of the planet to do something completely irrelevant and insignificant to the plot?

Claire will have no problem forgiving him for killing Nathan or cutting her head open or terrorizing her family. Just like she has no problems forgiving Puppet Master. It's just her own father that can't win with her.

 

[Peter the Younger]

The Good: The reveal of Noah's past was pretty cool, if unexpected - always figured he started out in the CIA or FBI, didn't see "car salesman" coming at all. It all tracks now - except maybe for that period when Noah and Sandra lived in NYC, but that's easily explainable.


The Bad: Wow, who knew you could cure megalomaniacal, mass murdering psychopaths by telling them that nobody loves them, then locking them up (from their perspective) for many years so they can ponder the error of their ways? And now all is forgiven. Welcome to the side of righteousness, Popular Villain Character! Whee!

Sorry, but what a crock.

Also, where did Parkman go? Peter gets into Sylar's head, and Matt decides the best thing to do is to finish bricking up Sylar and leave Peter laying on the floor? I don't care if you're late for work, at least get the guy a friggin' cot, man!

The Ugly: It's always a tricky thing doing flashbacks from a character's earlier adulthood - do you use a younger actor, or let the star play the part and try to make them look younger. Heroes chose the latter - sort of. They didn't really make Jack Coleman look younger, but they did film him in black and white (which I guess is because Noah's memories are from way back in 1985, before the world had color.)

 

[Aragorn]

Noah being a used car salesman sets up his transformation into Cobra Commander for next season.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

The Ugly: It's always a tricky thing doing flashbacks from a character's earlier adulthood - do you use a younger actor, or let the star play the part and try to make them look younger. Heroes chose the latter - sort of. They didn't really make Jack Coleman look younger, but they did film him in black and white (which I guess is because Noah's memories are from way back in 1985, before the world had color.)

Hah, that's exactly what I was thinking... Jack Coleman supposedly played a guy in his mid/late 20ies in those flashbacks. Same applies to Eric Roberts of course. Somehow the writers didn't seem to realize that 1985 was a quarter of a century ago.

Btw, this is how Jack Coleman actually looked in the 80ies (as Steven Carrington in "Dynasty"):

EDIT: Unbelievable that the season finale is next week. And it still feels like nothing really important happened so far. Almost no build-up whatsoever. Half the time it was just Nathan and Sylar fighting over their body (and then Parkman fighting with Sylar in his mind). Compare that to the rollercoaster the final few episodes of Dollhouse were recently.

 

[Lt. Trull]

No forgiveness for nobody.... Ever....
Everybody get to live with the Keeper in the underworld... Forever...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Alidar- Yeah, I couldn't stomach Sylar being a hero. On the facebook page, there are all these people gushing over Sylar being a hero and how they always knew he was a good guy and how much they love him. I'm sorry, but I can't forget him killing Nathan, Issac Charlie, Chandra Suresh, Zane Taylor, Dale Smithers, Mr. Walker, Jackie, Brian Davis, and violating Claire. There's just too much to that character that just can't be forgotten and it would be sickening to see him running around with Peter, Hiro, Matt, and the others.

Actually, it isn't quite so much about forgiving him as that he's overpowered. If they took away his healing power and nerfed his telekensis, I could buy it (probably should take away his shape shifting, although I don't think he uses that much anymore). Right now, putting on a team of good guys would just defeat the point of having the other good guys.

But to have him return back to being evil would just be cheap. So far over the entire 4 seasons we've had, Sylar the boogeyman (Beginning of Season 1), Sylar who considers being a Hero (A couple episodes in Season 1), standard villain (end of season 1), powerless (season 2), back to villain (first episode of Volume 3), anti-hero (Beginning of Volume 3), standard villain (end of volume 3), villain who's trying to find themself (Beginning of Volume 4), sleezy villain who simply is looking out for their own self interests (End of Volume 4), Nathan Petrelli (Beginning of Volume 5), the Devil on Parkman's shoulder (Beginning of Volume 5), Good Guy, not even an anti hero (End of Volume 5). He's done pretty much every facet of villain that you can do and everytime he goes back to being a bad guy, the show plays it up like it's completely new, which it's not. To me the only option is let him die a hero, which I think is the direction they're going to take.

I tend to agree. My only reason why I want him as a villain is, after the series is done, he'll probably be the only memorable character (maybe Hiro, but only from the first season). The show seems set up to have Peter fight him in the final battle in the last episode. The problem is they don't know what to do with him otherwise (he really needed to make guest appearances, not be a regular, and possibly disappear entirely for the season after Nathan was "lost").

Well, this was a better episode of the season. But why do I feel like they are going to forget about bunches of events they should tie up this season like where Charlie went?

I'll be pissed off if they don't mention her at all (I don't think they will because they mentioned her a week or two ago). But I see a couple of options.

1. Hiro saves her.
2. Hiro tries to find out where she is, Samuel doesn't tell him, Hiro is angry/sad
3. She's already dead/lost forever. Samuel's only bluffing when he says he knows where she is.

 

[Servo]

Sorry, but I'm curious as to what exactly the Madrox wannabe thinks he's going to do against Sylar? I mean, the guy can multiply himself, but other than that, there's fuck all "super" about him. Sylar could kill, or even just incapacitate, him and his clones in a second. Hell, most of the specials in this show could hand Mr Xerox his arse without breaking too much of a sweat.

 

[C_Miller]

Samuel has a distinct over confidence. Since he found out about his powers, he thinks he's a god, so he sees no problem in just sending Multiple Man. Or he's trying to cover his tracks. With Multiple dead, there is no one that knows Samuel had Lydia killed.

 

[Borgminister]

Interesting question in terms of is there such a thing as redemption and rehabilitation...

Good eppy, in fact above average, brain farts with Claire aside.

Just wonder how they can have a satisfactory conclusion with the loose threads dangling.

 

[Snaploud]

Also, where did Parkman go? Peter gets into Sylar's head, and Matt decides the best thing to do is to finish bricking up Sylar and leave Peter laying on the floor? I don't care if you're late for work, at least get the guy a friggin' cot, man!

 

[Hermiod]

Sorry, but I'm curious as to what exactly the Madrox wannabe thinks he's going to do against Sylar? I mean, the guy can multiply himself, but other than that, there's fuck all "super" about him. Sylar could kill, or even just incapacitate, him and his clones in a second. Hell, most of the specials in this show could hand Mr Xerox his arse without breaking too much of a sweat.

+1

Sylar would crush that guy. Even with the "Nathan" stopping him from killing people (or whatever it is), he'd still wipe the floor with the guy. It was only that fact that stopped Sylar killing Samuel himself.

That's assuming Peter doesn't just use Parkman's telepathy to shut him down.

 

[C_Miller]

Interesting question in terms of is there such a thing as redemption and rehabilitation...

Good eppy, in fact above average, brain farts with Claire aside.

Just wonder how they can have a satisfactory conclusion with the loose threads dangling.

I don't think a lot of the loose ends will be tied up. The search for Charlie will be Hiro's journey next season. Peter will have to live with forgiving Sylar. Mohinder's going to have to make a choice with going back to his regular life or joining the Heroes for good. Claire will have to deal with her daddy issues... again. And I'd imagine that the conclusion of this plotline is going to create another loose end that will be the main plotline of the next season.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

This episode was worth watching just for the Pylar slash fuel. Much better than recent weeks.

The flashbacks with Noah were decent, and I'm glad Claire didn't act like a petulant brat the way she normally does when she finds out Daddy did bad. She was rightfully upset with him, but no way was she going to turn on him for Samuel's sake.

I have to say, it's a shame the writers have essentially gutted Samuel's complexity as a character. He started out talking about redemption and family, and he has since been devolved to little more than a power-hungry asshole fueled by romantic rejection. Why spend most of the season setting him up and having him explain his position only for it to all turn out to be hogwash? He was shaping up to be a fairly interesting villain, which this show has so frequently lacked.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Well typical Heroes. Always ending up falling flat or coming up short, somewhere.

Man! What a great Lost premier!

 

[Borgminister]

Interesting question in terms of is there such a thing as redemption and rehabilitation...

Good eppy, in fact above average, brain farts with Claire aside.

Just wonder how they can have a satisfactory conclusion with the loose threads dangling.

I don't think a lot of the loose ends will be tied up. The search for Charlie will be Hiro's journey next season. Peter will have to live with forgiving Sylar. Mohinder's going to have to make a choice with going back to his regular life or joining the Heroes for good. Claire will have to deal with her daddy issues... again. And I'd imagine that the conclusion of this plotline is going to create another loose end that will be the main plotline of the next season.

...If there is a next season, that is...

 

[Lt. Trull]

I don't think a lot of the loose ends will be tied up. The search for Charlie will be Hiro's journey next season. Peter will have to live with forgiving Sylar. Mohinder's going to have to make a choice with going back to his regular life or joining the Heroes for good. Claire will have to deal with her daddy issues... again. And I'd imagine that the conclusion of this plotline is going to create another loose end that will be the main plotline of the next season.

the only thing daddy's guilty of is caring for his little girl... even with that scene of the where he threatened to mind wipe clair's girlfriend, he's only guilty of wanting his girl to have a normal life...