Heroes: "Shadowboxing" 11/9 - Grading & Discussion

[Daneel]

Decent, but not great. I'll go with average. Much like the rest of the season, things are progressing, but the pacing feels almost glacial. There's potential for some interesting stuff to happen, but they need to kick it into high gear.

I liked the Matt/Sylar stuff the best this week; I might have gone with an above average grade if I thought for a moment that they'd actually kill off Matt (and, by extension, Sylar's consciousness), but that last shot of him still alive in the ambulance kind of cheapens Matt's act of sacrifice, as mentioned above.

One little thing I liked was the acknowledgment that, after the events of last week's episode, the timeline has been ever-so-slightly changed, with Sylar's comment that he once "tried" to kill a waitress in that restaurant. I wonder if we'll see any other little nods like that, or if perhaps something bigger has changed due to Hiro's altering of history. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be kind of neat.

 

[Tom]

Well I guess we learned two facts about Peters power situation that we kinda knew but confirmed:

- He can only have one power at a time. (mentioned in dialouge)

- He can selectivly take a power by touch and does not automatically get a power by touch. He touched Emma and few times and hugged and held Nathan/Sylars head yet retains his healing power into the next episode.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Well I guess we learned two facts about Peters power situation that we kinda knew but confirmed:

- He can only have one power at a time. (mentioned in dialouge)

- He can selectivly take a power by touch and does not automatically get a power by touch. He touched Emma and few times and hugged and held Nathan/Sylars head yet retains his healing power into the next episode.

Yep, I chalk the absorption of the deaf woman's power up to the fact that he didn't know she had one, so he didn't know to hit the "block incoming powers" button.

I`m going to go against the grain of the anti-Hiro posters here and declare for all his silliness, Hiro`s plot is far more entertaining than Peter`s.

I'd have to agree - although Hiro's character traits (the childish, selfish "hero") still grates on me, and makes it tough to enjoy his sub-plot.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I also didn't like how Gretchen just left Claire all of a sudden, especially after Claire professed her love. I can't see Gretchen having a total change of heart like that.

There was an invisible girl trying to kill her! I doubt many college crushes could survive that! I'd be on the next plane to Timbuktu.

Pretty good overall. I liked the literal battle of wits between Matt and Sylar, who I see has recovered wonderfully from last week's off-target characterization. Matt's sacrifice was noble and brave. Just don't start thinking about the logic of it too much...who is in charge and when and why? now Matt can give Sylar delusions, too? when are they talking to each other verbally and when are they just telepathically "talking" (or did that whole diner listen to Sylar jabbering to himself for hours?) Why does Sylar have to interrogate Matt? If he's in his head, shouldn't he know everything Matt does?

Most importantly - will the writers remember that Matt's fingerprints are on the murder weapon and as a cop, his fingerprints will be in the police databases? Or am I giving them too much credit again?

Peter is still being a masochistic weirdo in regards to his powers (he now has the "perfect" power to feed his self-damaging behavior). But this is all perfectly in synch with the character. I guess he isn't having trouble controlling the power well enough that there's no risk of killing anyone - no doubt that's going to rear it's ugly head. We get the point that Peter is so wrapped up in heroism that it's downright unhealthy. It's time for this plotline to go somewhere, but of course plotlines-to-nowhere are Heroes' hallmark.

I really like Samuel's character as they really are making him more and more Magneto-lite.

Good progress with him this week - his protective relationship to Becky is like the evil variation of Noah & Claire. But not evil from Samuel's point of view - he's doing what he thinks is best for her and all of them.

One little thing I liked was the acknowledgment that, after the events of last week's episode, the timeline has been ever-so-slightly changed, with Sylar's comment that he once "tried" to kill a waitress in that restaurant

I found it grating - if poor Charlie is such a nonentity that her death changed nothing else in the cosmos, then why bother killing her at all? It's just lazy writing.

I`m going to go against the grain of the anti-Hiro posters here and declare for all his silliness, Hiro`s plot is far more entertaining than Peter`s.

Peter's plot has the potential to have some psychological depth. He could represent the unhealthy side of even being a "good" hero. But I doubt they'll ever do anything with that notion, which makes me wonder why even raise the issue.

With Hiro, I see no point to any of it. There isn't even some interesting potential the writers are ignoring.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

This was better than the last few weeks have been, in my opinion. We had the characters generally being intelligent rather than complete dimwits. It's sad that that is so rare on this show as to be praiseworthy...

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon. But it probably will be dropped, just because it would be inconvenient to the plot. Or, when Matt is saved by Peter next week, everyone else will think he's dead, so no messy cases to worry about.

I'm glad the stuff with Gretchen was handled with some realism, too. This is everyday life for Claire. It sure as hell is not for Gretchen, crush or no crush. At first, she thought it was cool that Claire had a dangerous past, but seeing it up close she realized it was fucking terrifying. And it was really nice to see that kind of "everyman" angle on it, when most people on this show are total insiders.

I hope this story with Emma is going somewhere. It's nice and subdued, but it's just kind of there, and it would be nice to see something come of it.

I think we are seeing some real problems with Samuel's motives here. Apparently, he has no problem harboring deranged murderers, even when they are still actively engaged in killing people. Then again, he brought down a whole mansion just because some woman was snotty to him, so he clearly doesn't have much of a problem with cold-blooded murder in the first place.

I sure hope Noah was not aware of who Samuel was and what he'd been doing when he turned them loose. It's completely unforgivable if he knew Samuel was a mass-murderer and let him go just so Claire wouldn't hate him. He should have popped Samuel and Becky right there, no matter how Claire felt about it. It had better come back to haunt him.

The situation with Matt and Sylar was well-played, and definitely the highlight of the episode. But the rules of it were so arbitrary it felt like a chess game where the audience doesn't get to see the board, just the moves. But it was entertaining, at least.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon.

But if Matt's in jail or on death row, so is Sylar. I think Sylar was just making the point that he was in control, in the most shocking and savage way at hand. And it wouldn't be the first time he did something without thinking.

I wonder how he talked his way out of the airport situation. I can imagine Sylar trying to think of what an LA cop would say to get favorable treatment with airport cops. And Matt sitting there smugly and giving him zero help.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon.

But if Matt's in jail or on death row, so is Sylar. I think Sylar was just making the point that he was in control, in the most shocking and savage way at hand. And it wouldn't be the first time he did something without thinking.

I wonder how he talked his way out of the airport situation. I can imagine Sylar trying to think of what an LA cop would say to get favorable treatment with airport cops. And Matt sitting there smugly and giving him zero help.

I figured Sylar's whole intention was to go get his body back, then abandon Matt to the legal hell he'd created. But that might be a bit far-reaching for Sylar.

 

[Aragorn]

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon.

That was my first thought too. But immediately following was my second thought -- which is based solely on having watched every episode of this show -- is that the dead body will go the same way of Caitlin.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

One little thing I liked was the acknowledgment that, after the events of last week's episode, the timeline has been ever-so-slightly changed, with Sylar's comment that he once "tried" to kill a waitress in that restaurant

I found it grating - if poor Charlie is such a nonentity that her death changed nothing else in the cosmos, then why bother killing her at all? It's just lazy writing.

But all it means is that he never acquired her power, which I don't think we ever saw him use anyway. Charlie's death had nothing to do with anything, so not dying and getting plucked by Samuel into some obscure corner of time and space instead would have the same effect, surely? And seeing as Sylar lost her power when he got the Shanti virus anyway, I don't really see what possible relevance it has.

I for one appreciate that the writers recognised the change. I don't expect Charlie living or dying to have any effect on any events we've seen. Her original death was there to make Hiro sad and little else.

The only thing that annoyed me this week was that we have to wait longer to follow up on the Dead Mohinder teaser at the end of the last episode. They should have addressed that before Sylar/Matt or reordered the episodes.

I want Dead Mohinder dammit.

 

[ALF]

I think you folks are giving the writers waaaay too much credit re: the Sylar/Parkman legal woes set up...

Think about this: at the snail's pace the show is going, do you really want to sit through a court case in the Heroes world??

Heroes Volume 6: Litigations????

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think you folks are giving the writers waaaay too much credit re: the Sylar/Parkman legal woes set up...

Think about this: at the snail's pace the show is going, do you really want to sit through a court case in the Heroes world??

Heroes Volume 6: Litigations????

I just see it as a way to write him out. He gets arrested, goes down for an open-and-shut murder case. Off the show!

 

[startrekwatcher]

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon. But it probably will be dropped, just because it would be inconvenient to the plot.

I don't think Sylar had this in mind when he killed Hank. He just did it in order to show Matt that he better behave himself unless he wanted to see other innocent people get hurt because Matt was trying to undermine him. The unintended consequence, of course, is that to the rest of the world it is Matt's face, his fingerprints etc that will be tied to these crimes.

Heroes has never been much on really developing a plot point such as this into its own interesting arc over several episodes. The writers choose instead to treat these sorts of things as a mere plot point. This to me has always been a sad side effect of having such a large cast and not focusing on two or three threads to give depth to rather than throwing into the mix dozens of several strong story ideas that are only half-developed ideas in a given season.

If the writers had actually taken the time to develop some of their ideas instead of just using them as a springboard to fling the characters onto the next fleeting plot point the show wouldn't have felt like such a mess i.e. the Generations volume exploring the history of the Company/Founders, Peter living with Sylar's craving for powers etc.

And my first thought when Sylar killed Hank was that he did it specifically so Matt would be royally fucked, his fingerprints on a murder weapon.

That was my first thought too. But immediately following was my second thought -- which is based solely on having watched every episode of this show -- is that the dead body will go the same way of Caitlin.

Didn't Angela restart the Company? In season one they were the ones coming in and cleaning up the dead bodies like Simone. And Linderman got Niki out of her murder rap in season one. The Haitian can erase the officer's memories of seeing him holding the gun on them.

One other thing I don't quite get is Lydia's panic regarding the whereabouts of Sylar--she seems to be tapped into the writers' room so shouldn't she know where he is? Afterall she knew Hiro was in the past etc.

 

[Caligula]

I also didn't like how Gretchen just left Claire all of a sudden, especially after Claire professed her love. I can't see Gretchen having a total change of heart like that.

There was an invisible girl trying to kill her! I doubt many college crushes could survive that! I'd be on the next plane to Timbuktu.

In an unrealistic setting, Gretchen did have a realistic emotional response. That much is for sure. I was thrown for a loop because, despite Heroes's track record for dropping storylines out of the blue, I didn't expect them to pull that with the Claire/Gretchen storyline. It seemed like there was more that could've been done with it.

I'm assuming they're going to find some contrived way of getting Claire into the carnival just like Samuel wants. I'd just rather they didn't. What I'd rather see happen is for Sylar to return to his body and go all Dark Phoenix on Samuel and his band of misfits.

 

[Mr Light]

Speaking of the Company, they're not really showing any of this going on. Noah is off doing his own thing, Angela doesn't appear on the show anymore... IS there a secret conspiracy going around capturing the evil mutants? I forget is President Worf in on this and letting it happen?

 

[Sakrysta]

I want Dead Mohinder dammit.

I dunno. I've really enjoyed Absent-And-Forgotten Mohinder. I'm afraid that Dead Mohinder will only lead to Live Mohinder, and let's face it, none of us wants to go there!

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I want Dead Mohinder dammit.

I dunno. I've really enjoyed Absent-And-Forgotten Mohinder. I'm afraid that Dead Mohinder will only lead to Live Mohinder, and let's face it, none of us wants to go there!

Yeah, he was probably the most tiresome character through all of last season. If he's back, I hope it's just for one episode so we can kill him off and leave him that way.

 

[ALF]

I want Dead Mohinder dammit.

I dunno. I've really enjoyed Absent-And-Forgotten Mohinder. I'm afraid that Dead Mohinder will only lead to Live Mohinder, and let's face it, none of us wants to go there!

Yes. I have grown weary of stern, serious Mohinder. He Mohinders my enthusiasm.

Does anyone see what I did there?

Sylar, Hiro, Claire and HRG have senses of humor. Parkman, Mohinder and Peter do not. The latter I find quite stiff on the screen.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think you folks are giving the writers waaaay too much credit re: the Sylar/Parkman legal woes set up...

Think about this: at the snail's pace the show is going, do you really want to sit through a court case in the Heroes world??

Heroes Volume 6: Litigations????

Yeah the murder weapon will never be found. Silly me, thinking that might have been a setup to something interesting. But given Matt's mind-control powers, he could keep the law at bay indefinitely. He could even still work in law enforcement - he can adopt any visual persona he likes. He could drop in on police departments all over the country and imitate existing officers. If he gets found out, poof! He makes everyone think he's a potted plant.

For that matter, he could seek far more interesting professions. He could have one hell of a magic act in Vegas. How about going into sales? He could end up richer than Bill Gates. Poor Matt, he's got the world at his feet if only he'd know it. All he wants is his boring cop job and his boring suburban life.

He gets arrested, goes down for an open-and-shut murder case.

Not a problem! He simply "instructs" the jury and judge to exonerate him.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think you folks are giving the writers waaaay too much credit re: the Sylar/Parkman legal woes set up...

Think about this: at the snail's pace the show is going, do you really want to sit through a court case in the Heroes world??

Heroes Volume 6: Litigations????

Yeah the murder weapon will never be found. Silly me, thinking that might have been a setup to something interesting. But given Matt's mind-control powers, he could keep the law at bay indefinitely. He could even still work in law enforcement - he can adopt any visual persona he likes. He could drop in on police departments all over the country and imitate existing officers. If he gets found out, poof! He makes everyone think he's a potted plant.

For that matter, he could seek far more interesting professions. He could have one hell of a magic act in Vegas. How about going into sales? He could end up richer than Bill Gates. Poor Matt, he's got the world at his feet if only he'd know it. All he wants is his boring cop job and his boring suburban life.

He gets arrested, goes down for an open-and-shut murder case.

Not a problem! He simply "instructs" the jury and judge to exonerate him.

All of which would be fucking awesome, because he could never live with himself, deliberately manipulating the minds of so many for personal gain.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think you folks are giving the writers waaaay too much credit re: the Sylar/Parkman legal woes set up...

Think about this: at the snail's pace the show is going, do you really want to sit through a court case in the Heroes world??

Heroes Volume 6: Litigations????

Yeah the murder weapon will never be found. Silly me, thinking that might have been a setup to something interesting. But given Matt's mind-control powers, he could keep the law at bay indefinitely. He could even still work in law enforcement - he can adopt any visual persona he likes. He could drop in on police departments all over the country and imitate existing officers. If he gets found out, poof! He makes everyone think he's a potted plant.

For that matter, he could seek far more interesting professions. He could have one hell of a magic act in Vegas. How about going into sales? He could end up richer than Bill Gates. Poor Matt, he's got the world at his feet if only he'd know it. All he wants is his boring cop job and his boring suburban life.

He gets arrested, goes down for an open-and-shut murder case.

Not a problem! He simply "instructs" the jury and judge to exonerate him.

All of which would be fucking awesome, because he could never live with himself, deliberately manipulating the minds of so many for personal gain.

He'd only be doing it to avoid getting the death penalty for a crime he didn't commit (but can never prove legally), so even for Matt, the Jewish Eagle Scout, I don't see that being any massive source of guilt. With his powers, he could be far, far badder.