Heroes 3x20 "Cold Snap" Discuss and Grade

[hyzmarca]

You don't need powers to be a superhero. Batman proved that a very long time ago. The key is to actually do something. Even with powers, the vacillating characters on Heroes are less than heroic.

It's extremely difficult to do a time travel show well. Doctor Who isn't a time travel show. It's an adventure show that uses time travel as a plot generator, much like Quantum Leap was. The difference is rather huge, compared to a drama that uses time travel as a plot-revelator and a problem-solving tool, such as Heroes. In the former, fudging the rules in the name of a good story is alright, even preferable. In the latter, the rules must be totally consistent or the story breaks. Even Bill and Ted eventually figure out how absurdly powerful a tool unrestricted time travel is.

It would be fairly easy to limit Hiro's power by making excursions already part of history. The only problem is that this isn't really possible now because Future Hiro and Future Peter have both changed the past. There needs to be a good reason why Hiro can't just Bill & Ted his way through every problem.

 

[Hermiod]

You don't need powers to be a superhero. Batman proved that a very long time ago. The key is to actually do something. Even with powers, the vacillating characters on Heroes are less than heroic.

This is a show about people with superpowers. You do not write a show about people with superpowers unless you intend for those people to be able to use them.

Smallville does the same thing by giving Clark underpowered non-threatening villains who suddenly turn out to have a watch made out of Kryptonite that they just happened to be wearing that day.

Batman, by the way, has vast resources, extensive training and large amounts of highly specialised, advanced equipment at his disposal.

It's extremely difficult to do a time travel show well. Doctor Who isn't a time travel show. It's an adventure show that uses time travel as a plot generator, much like Quantum Leap was. The difference is rather huge, compared to a drama that uses time travel as a plot-revelator and a problem-solving tool, such as Heroes. In the former, fudging the rules in the name of a good story is alright, even preferable. In the latter, the rules must be totally consistent or the story breaks. Even Bill and Ted eventually figure out how absurdly powerful a tool unrestricted time travel is.

It would be fairly easy to limit Hiro's power by making excursions already part of history. The only problem is that this isn't really possible now because Future Hiro and Future Peter have both changed the past. There needs to be a good reason why Hiro can't just Bill & Ted his way through every problem.

Watch Future Hiro's appearance in "Collision" and "Hiros" again. "I'm risking a rift just by coming here".

That's your limitation, the very first time we saw Hiro try to use time travel to fix a problem.

 

[TheArsenal]

There were no monumental shifts or "wow" revelations - although I was caught off guard and surprised by both deaths - but the character interaction and dialogue was clearly better. Nice job there. But with characters as broken as Claire, Peter and to a large degree, Sylar, the hard work is yet to be done.

A definite improvement. Above Average.

 

[The Habs Fan]

This whole situation reminds me of Enterprise in it's fourth season. A new producer comes in, and there is a great increase in quality; but it comes late in the show, when half the audience has already tuned out. It was too late for Enterprise, is it too late for Heroes?

In the case of Enterprise, Manny Coto came onto Enterprise between Seasons 2 and 3 as a co-executive producer and became the showrunner for Season 4. Season 3, which IMO was the best season of Enterprise, was run by Braga and Berman with Coto writing some episodes. I would say that the increase in quality on Enterprise began with the episode The Expanse and carried through to the end of the series (TATV excepted).

I don't think Enterprise ever got as bad as Heroes did this season. Even season 2, generally seen as the worst season of Enterprise, had some excellent episodes (for example, Dead Stop and Regeneration). On the other hand, Season 3 of Heroes has been full of tired writing and boring stories. I'm not sure that Bryan Fuller, in his current capacity of Consulting Producer not Executive Producer, can do enough to turn this season around. The only way Season 4 of Heroes would be good is if Fuller is given the reins as showrunner or he writes every episode. Enterprise was able to turn itself around starting in Season 3 because of a good base of writers that were already working on the show and were still outputting some great episodes accepting the new direction and succeeding with it. It remains to be seen if Heroes can do the same.

 

[brianbeercan]

Watch Future Hiro's appearance in "Collision" and "Hiros" again. "I'm risking a rift just by coming here".

That's your limitation, the very first time we saw Hiro try to use time travel to fix a problem.

That's an extremely vague limitation. When limitations are that vague, the writers can sort of fudge it to fit the plot, and that never feels right.

Part of the problem this show has is that a lot of the powers are too powerful. Look at the powers on the 4400, for example, and you see a big difference. Being a power sponge is okay for a villain like Sylar, but it sucks for a good guy. That's why Superman is so boring. He's so powerful, they had to invent kryptonite, because nothing else could threaten him.

I do agree that the whole taking powers away / giving them back / weakening them is tedious. Instead, they should just be getting rid of characters that don't work. Hiro and Peter are two of the more prominent characters, but at this point I wouldn't complain if they were axed.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I actually think Matt is too powerful (but they did establish he has a weakness).

 

[Hermiod]

Peter should be written like Superman, the ideal that the other heroes look up to and also the most powerful.

As I've said, right now he's just Captain Redundant.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

He's Captain Dork. The characters in Heroes just aren't compelling enough to leave an impression, not enough for me to really care what happens to them. The only ones that I'm even mildly invested in are Noah, Angela, and Nathan. Claire Bear can go to college overseas and never come back for all I care.

 

[Aragorn]

I actually think Matt is too powerful (but they did establish he has a weakness).

Bagels?

 

[Hermiod]

He's Captain Dork. The characters in Heroes just aren't compelling enough to leave an impression, not enough for me to really care what happens to them. The only ones that I'm even mildly invested in are Noah, Angela, and Nathan. Claire Bear can go to college overseas and never come back for all I care.

Yeah, I can just imagine the day they kill Peter off.

I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of fangirls suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I actually think Matt is too powerful (but they did establish he has a weakness).

Bagels?

It's more about what he put on his bagels.

Telepaths are supposed to be alpowerful. The only way to get one shoould be by guided missle you launch from half a world away. Though Noah exploited the obvious lanuage barrier, but Matts powers have moved beyond just reading or placing verbal commands now, but someone not being able to speak english would be at a deffinite advantage... Though Xavier was able to copy and paste new languages straight into his X-Men's brains when the situation demaned it.

 

[Checkmate]

Matt's weakness was revealed to be an inability to handle too much sensory stimuli. Sirens and alarms were more than enough to keep him from using his power effectively when he went into Building 26 with Peter. He couldn't concentrate enough to use his powers.

 

[Alex1939]

A friend said, "Don't give up on heroes yet! This is the best episode in a long time!"

And, it was enjoyable to a degree. But a few things bothered me too much.

The "wink" that Traci (freezing chick) does after she is shot and crumbles... that was too lame.

And why bring back Daphne just to have her die? That seems pointless. This show brings back people WAY too much anyway. Why not just leave her dead? I didn't like that.


Honestly, I can't believe how dull these characters are. I can't imagine another person anywhere being as dull as Parkman can be with his abilities. These heroes ought to be running the world...... BLEH!

Lesson learned: Don't trust friends opinion on TV.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Yeah, I can just imagine the day they kill Peter off.

I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of fangirls suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

That's what I don't get. Why is it Peter that gets all the fan girls? To this day I don't get the Milo Ventimiglia appeal. Nathan's the hot one. Peter's a dork.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Lockjaw is sexy?

He is too busy playing comic relief, or second banana to comic relief, but Ando is a very good looking bloke who is under valued and unappreciated.

 

[Mr Light]

^^ I imagine that huge tuning fork on his forehead is a great draw for the ladies. Y'know what they say about huge tuning forks...

 

[Hermiod]

Yeah, I can just imagine the day they kill Peter off.

I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of fangirls suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

That's what I don't get. Why is it Peter that gets all the fan girls? To this day I don't get the Milo Ventimiglia appeal. Nathan's the hot one. Peter's a dork.

He's a vaguely attractive male on a Sci-Fi show and there are more than enough fangirls to go around.

All those years of "they only hired Jeri Ryan for her boobs" are coming back to haunt the fangirls now.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Lockjaw is sexy?

Crystal thinks so...

You're right! He looks just like Nathan!

 

[Checkmate]

Where do people come up with the "so and so is only on for the huge following of fangirls/boys" bits?

Just because the networks -- lost in archaic beliefs such as "sex sales" -- say something like that, that doesn't make it true. I don't know many fans of Claire, either, yet she's apparently on the show solely for all the teenaged boys she attracts to the show (which is pure baloney).

Kill of both her and Peter and I bet there'd be minimal impact on the show's ratings. If anything they'd improve a bit.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That s why they had to make her unkillable. It's a universal counterweight that she is as unkillable as the combined global will to see her dead.